A Podcast for Coaches

Hey, this is Mark Butler and you are
listening to a podcast for coaches.

This week's episode.

Is a conversation with a friend.

Her name is Shantelle Allen.

She has been a coach since 2018 or 2019.

Shantelle started out as an acquaintance.

Then she became a client and now.

She's definitely a family friend.

Kate, and I have gotten to
know her and appreciate her.

And so I'm very happy to
bring Shantelle to you.

I wanted to bring her on the podcast
because I've watched her go through

multiple evolutions in her practice.

And in spite of the fact that she
is a very type, a high achieving

striver, she calls herself.

She's been very open to new ways
of being throughout the five or six

years that she's been in practice.

And I can see how it benefits her
and now it has benefited her clients.

And so for that reason, I wanted to
share Shantelle and her work with you.

So let's get in to this conversation.

Mark Butler: I think we met in 2018 or 19,

Chantel Allen: 18, 18, 18.

Last time I've coached
school was live in person.

Mark Butler: Did we meet there?

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

We went to life coach training,
you were an instructor there.

Kate was going through at the same time.

I think it was later in 2019
that we did a lunch with.

With you.

And we just like picked
your brain like crazy.

And you were so open and willing
for us just to kind of dive

into the, the mind of Mark.

And then we kind of, that's when
we started to do the free calls.

But then also I think we did that
mastermind right after that with you too.

Mark Butler: Oh, that.

Yep.

Yep.

That's right.

So yeah.

So Chantelle has been my client.

We've, we've done some coaching together.

You're an interesting character for
me in my coaching universe, because

you exemplify and you model a way
of being that I think is amazing.

There are coaches who find their way
into their, their coaching community.

They adopt the way of being that's taught
and supported by that coaching community.

That's what they bring.

They build their business around it.

work with their clients in the
way that community prescribes.

And, that's it.

They just kind of hang
out there long term.

I don't think it's a bad way of
being, but it's not your way of being.

Chantel Allen: Well, and if I'm
being honest, I did start there.

Like, I think everybody kind of
walking out of the environment that

we kind of walked out of I think a
natural tendency is to follow what

you're prescribed to do and try it.

But I think I found out very
quickly it didn't work for me.

And so, I think it was, I mean,
I'm going to give you credit here.

You helped me step outside of that box.

Because it was a very scary
place to be to say, I'm not

going to do it the same formula.

I'm going to allow myself to try something
different and just see what happens.

I'm still learning.

I still haven't figured it all out, but
I think it's an easier place to be rather

than going based off of what everybody
else tells us is the way to do it.

Mark Butler: I want to have
people hear some of the specific,

, steps along that journey.

One of the reasons you're so compelling to
me is that I consider you high achieving

I would probably call you type a like
straight A students rule following.

Yes.

And that's who you, that's
who you came into coaching as.

Yes.

I'm not criticizing that.

That's strength.

Yeah, totally.

That's why it's so interesting to
me that bringing that DNA and that

personality into your coaching life,
you did give yourself permission to

break the rules of one community and
continue to be on your own exploration

and find your own way of being.

Talk about that evolution and
however much detail you want.

Chantel Allen: Well, I, I think the
biggest thing that I've had to learn is.

I had to go first.

I thought everybody else
had the answers for me.

And so I had to realize I was
the best client for myself.

So I started doing things
in the thought work land.

That's kind of what we walked
out of life coach school.

And I started to notice for myself,
I would apply and do some of these

tools and it wasn't working for me.

So I'm like, why would I, why would
I approach this with my clients?

If, if I'm trying to do this
work and it's, I'm not getting

traction, I'm not getting results.

Like we claim right as coaches and
so by my own integrity, by my own

authenticity, I just knew something
was missing and for a while it was a

very scary place to be because again,
you're like stepping outside the box.

You're kind of going
against what all the other.

And I say that lightly, not all
coaches are the same, but going

against the model that we were taught.

And, but I realized like, once I started
to allow myself to have that voice

and to kind of coach in that way, I
attracted so many other people that

are like, Oh my gosh, I'm so grateful.

You're finally saying it this
way, because I've noticed.

I've hit a peak with ThoughtWork, or
I've, you know, it doesn't work like

the, they all claim it should, or
I'm just stagnant, or whatever it is.

And I think that's just it, is I've been
willing to go first every single time.

It's not that I let somebody else's model
tell me that's where I needed to go.

it's, I'm going to see
what's working for me.

And then I bring that into my coaching.

And so it's changing all the time.

Like I look at where I was last
year, even to today, ,, we were

talking a couple of weeks ago.

I'm like, I've had this falling
apart again in the last couple of

months, but I think it's again, been
leading my coaching to going to some

place that I think is going to be
awesome to kind of play around with.

But yeah, it's just, I go
first every single time.

So that's been my journey.

And it's scary because I
don't have it figured out.

I don't have it.

Perfect.

And I think sometimes that's
something that stops us.

Mark Butler: Speaking of that fear, I'm
curious if you have a memory of when, so

you'd been taught a certain way of being,
you'd been taught a certain approach.

You started to feel like it
wasn't delivering what you thought

it was supposed to deliver.

Right.

Curious about that season.

Yeah.

What did that season look like for
you where you're kind of coming out

of this like, Oh, those tools, I see
value in those tools, but they're

not doing quite what they're supposed
They're supposed to, what does

that next season look like for you?

Chantel Allen: So it was the
good old 2020 era, I think is

when I started to notice it.

I, so I love what you said
that I'm a high achiever.

Yeah.

I will tell everybody I'm a high achiever
type a, but most people that know that if

you're that way, you also struggle with
being in tune with your emotions, right?

There's like this.

Yeah.

You're kind of numb, you're kind of
cut off, which again, is a strength

because you can just get going on things.

But in 2020, here we were, we were
all at home, and all of a sudden,

and I think everybody can relate
to this, anxiety became at an

all time high for so many people.

And so you could tell them,
Think this positive thought

or think this way or whatever.

And it, it wasn't working.

It wasn't working the way
that we all thought it should.

And I was in the same place.

I was experiencing a ton of anxiety.

A burnout was like right on the
cusp in my business because with

the, the pandemic, I had a flux
of new clients that came into me.

So business was great, but it was,
it was coming at a cost to my health.

And I was like, okay, there's gotta
be something that breaks here and

I don't need it to be me again.

And so I started to play around
with that and I started realizing

I'm telling myself I'm feeling
my emotions, but I really am not.

So I went and got training in emotion
work because I'm like, I think

this is the missing piece for me.

I think this is what I need
to learn a little bit more.

And coming from being a striver,
it was some of the scariest.

I still like, I still feel it's a little
woo, but I say that to a lot of people.

I'm like, it's a little woo
to me to kind of go there.

But , I saw the benefits
and I'm like, Oh my gosh.

Okay.

If I'm seeing the benefits of
understanding my emotions more,

then there's something here.

There's something here that I know
can really, really benefit other

people that are just like me.

So in the 2020 realm, that's
where I started to move.

I was coaching in another person's,
coaching group at the time.

And I just started putting it into
my coaching that people would hear.

And the feedback that I got
almost immediately was like,

this is a breath of fresh air.

This is something that I have needed.

This makes so much more sense to me.

And so that's what kind
of was the catapult.

Cause again, it was me.

I had to be the person that saw it first.

I was realizing I've hit a
roadblock in coaching and, my

health and my relationships and
just applying this new tool is what

took everything to the next level.

Mark Butler: My question is you're having
these epiphanies and I like how you said

you're your own best client, but you
have clients too, so you are using tools.

Teaching tools, on a podcast
or in your content and, in your

community with your clients.

And then you're finding that
those tools are lacking for you.

And then you're going to find new
tools and you're adopting those tools

and experimenting with them, but
you're doing all of this while there

are appointments on the calendar.

Yes.

How are you navigating that?

Chantel Allen: The biggest thing I've
had to be open with is I tell people

like, I'm still figuring this out.

Like even when I get on a call with
somebody, I had a, I had a consult just

the other week where someone was like,
how do I know that this stuff even works?

And I'm like, you don't.

You just have to, again,
there's not a Holy grail.

So I, I'm constantly telling my
clients, like I'm trying new things

and I will constantly bring what
I am learning into our coaching.

But again, if it's not a Holy grail,
if it's not a one size fits all, I

just look at it as my coaching changes.

We're just giving them different
tools in their tool belt.

So someone that was my client when
I was in the thought work realm, it

doesn't mean I did it all wrong or
they didn't get anything out of it.

It's like, you know what?

That was awesome.

Now we can try this and we're
going to try and apply this.

And it's been so good in that way,
because not that you want people

to keep coming back, but they come
back because they know there's other

ways that we can look into this.

Mark Butler: The way you're saying
that makes me think that you weren't

making yourself wrong for having
done it a different way and then,

and then doing something new.

Was it never a struggle?

Did you never have issues with that?

Chantel Allen: I did
at the very beginning.

So when I was, especially
coaching and another coaches.

group because she hired me to be this way.

Like I thought for sure she was hiring
me for my style that I was before.

So I had a lot of cognitive dissonance
of just like, you know, I should be

like this, but I'm really compelled.

I was sure I was going to get
fired years ago because I was

doing something different.

So I definitely had.

the internal battle with that.

Cause I'm like, I mean, you
and I've had many conversations

about that, of what do I do?

Cause I got a lot of my clients from being
in that, that coach's group for a while.

So I was so worried that, yeah, I'm
getting all of these clients from this.

And then she's going to let me go.

Cause I'm so different
than everybody else.

, what am I going to do?

But I also am like, this
just feels right to me.

I think that's where Coaching becomes hard
or business becomes hard is when we're

doing things that we should versus what
we feel compelled and, and want to do.

So I've noticed it.

Yeah.

It is still as a struggle.

Like I still see other people.

I put out a podcast on mine last week.

That push up against
the coaching industry.

And I was so nervous about
the feedback and the pushback.

But at the same time, I'm
like, that's what calls to me.

So I listened to that part.

That's like, you're, you're going to,
something's going to happen to you if

you say this, or you coach in this way.

But I also know there's a lot of people
that resonate with what I have to say.

And I'm not for everybody.

Like, that's my thing is
I'm not for everybody.

I'm not trying to get everybody.

I'm just trying to find the people that
align with what and how I do coaching.

Mark Butler: When you talk about
burnout and the possibility

of burnout The expensive part
there is the self deception.

Yes It's so internally costly to
feel that one thing is true But

to be acting as though something
else is true is true or is better.

Yep.

It's so expensive
mentally and emotionally.

And that I think is what produces burnout.

Chantel Allen: At the very beginning,
I think that struggle that I had

is this narrative of you just
need to believe harder, right?

If you're not getting the results,
you just need to believe harder.

And that, I had so much pushback on
that, of like, okay, that, is that true?

Like I must, I just need to believe
harder so I can get different results.

And it just didn't feel right.

So yeah, I was, I think everybody,
it's normal for us to have that fight

within ourselves of like, is that true?

Or is what I'm thinking is true?

But yeah.

I don't know.

I think that's just part of the journey.

I think all of the time.

Mark Butler: One of the important
things to me is that when you came

up against that and you said, I'm not
finding enough evidence for that way

of being, that's a fork in the road.

And tragically, too many people.

at that fork in the road, they
choose a path that's called, I

must be wrong and bad and terrible.

And I think it, I think it's really
harmful, hurtful, painful, because

what, what they're saying is, Oh, if
the message is just believe harder,

and I think I'm believing harder,
but the result isn't changing.

That must mean that I'm bad or wrong.

Something's wrong with me.

Yeah.

But the other path at that fork in
the road is I'm not bad or wrong,

so I'm going to find something
else that's more effective

Chantel Allen: for me.

If you go down the side that allows you to
step into yourself, it's actually easier.

It's when you lean into what you
believe is truth or what everybody

else is telling you to do.

That actually is harder.

You're swimming upstream.

You know, you're trying to prove
yourself in the coaching world versus

letting yourself kind of go down
the other side of the fork and just

saying like, my side is working.

I just got to fine tune it.

I got to figure out the ors or
the whatever, but it does work.

I just got to figure that part out.

So, and that's scary because
it's not like everybody else

Mark Butler: So you're making
this transition from, one way

of being to another and you're
doing it all while having clients

and you're feeling the fear.

How often did it come into your
mind to just bail on the whole

thing and just be like, I'm out.

Chantel Allen: If I'm being very honest,
I have that every couple of months.

Okay.

It still happens.

Yeah.

It still totally happens.

That's why I was saying when we
talked a couple weeks ago, I was like,

yeah, just came from a falling apart.

And I, it's a decision I have to
constantly make in my business of

like, Hey, I'm doing this again.

But I, yeah, I think
it still is a struggle.

I, but what I've come to realize is.

When that time happens, it's not a
bad thing, like I used to have so much

shame around it of like, well, maybe I'm
doubting my business or I want to quit

and that's a sign that I need to listen to
it or I need to, and I'm taking it as now

just like, no, maybe I need to slow down.

Maybe I need to look at some of the
systems that I'm trying and decide

again if I really want to do them.

But.

It's not a quitting thing anymore.

It's just more of like, I just need a
breath or I just need to realign in a

different way or something like that.

Mark Butler: Are you describing
the falling apart experience?

Is that what that looks like?

Chantel Allen: Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

I literally, so I was again,
Stryver right in my podcast.

I've been doing it for.

Five years.

And I'm that perfectionist, right?

So the coaches told us for so long,
you need to do it consistently

every single month, every single
week at a certain time, have your

people know that it's coming out.

Last year, when I had some
issues happen in my coaching

business, I literally let that go.

I let that fall apart.

And it was the scariest thing, but
it was such a breath of fresh air.

At the same time, I gave myself
permission to stop doing some of the

things that I was told I needed to do
and then read aside, recommit to it.

So I'm still doing it again.

But it's so different.

I may not put it out every week.

And that's so different than where I
was like three years ago, where I was

like, I have to do it every single week.

It's now that falling apart gave me
permission to again, show up when I

wanted to show up and not have to be
perfect and consistent all of the time.

And I think it's even better now
because now when I show up, it's

on purpose because I want to
versus, oh, I should, or I have to.

Mark Butler: That sounds
like a transition from a fear

motivation to a love motivation.

Chantel Allen: Absolutely.

And I do think like, I noticed even
the money issue, money has been such

an issue for me for since starting.

Cause I was, I mean, it's a business
we want to make money from it.

But before there was this narrative
of like, you got to keep going and

double your income and double your
income and double whatever in this.

You know, you're supposed to,
whatever, every single time that

fear again in comparison led me
to like, I'm doing it all wrong.

I'm not doing it right or whatever.

As soon as I let that go and I just
show up, right, that's when everything

just started to work, which goes
totally against what my brain and

this driver wants me to believe.

It's just like, it tells me I
have to keep going, but no, as

soon as you let things fall apart.

It becomes easy.

That's pretty good.

Mark Butler: That's pretty good.

Talk to me about ,, the
changes in your approach.

I know you started with what
you're calling this very

thought work, very cognitive.

Yep.

Approach with yourself
and with your clients.

Then you talked about
pursuing an emotions training.

Keep going with that conversation.

How are you different in your approach
to coaching than you were five years ago?

Chantel Allen: So yes,
I did thought training.

I still use it.

I think again, it's got some benefits
to, to be able to question our thoughts

and to be able to recognize our stories,
but I don't go heavy laden into it.

It's not that we have to look at
every single thing because I also

find kind of what we were saying
is I went to emotion training.

So now I bring in emotion work to it
and helping people to awaken to their

emotions, know what their emotions are.

But even now, so that's some of
the falling apart that happened.

I am noticing and I would love to hear
your thoughts on this too, Mark, but

I have noticed in the coaching world
that it, I would say self development.

I don't want to just say this is
just coaching, but self development

we swung from being a very, we
had to actually teach people to

be selfish at the very beginning.

I would say five years ago of like,
Hey, it's okay for you to be selfish.

Cause that was me.

That was totally me.

If like, It's okay for you to be
selfish, to work on yourself, to

in, you know, invest in yourself.

But now I've seen it swing to the
other side where now we're like over

the top and people are becoming too,
and I say this lightly, too selfish.

And we see our kids kind of growing
up this way, only talking about their

problems, only focusing on their emotions,
having to heal every single little thing.

And so I, not that I even
know the balance yet.

But even in my coaching, I'm trying
to find where I don't swing one

side or the other of like, yes,
we have to solve every problem.

We have to feel every emotion.

It's, can we figure that out?

Turn on the lights.

But then my thing is like, get
up and go, go live your life.

Go be with people.

Think about other people instead
of it being that I have to be on

an Island by myself and figure this
out before I can go live my life.

So that's, I don't even
have it all figured out.

And that's, I've told that to so many of
the people that I'm starting to work with.

I'm like, I don't know yet what this is.

I even have a coaching group that I've
told them like, we're going to try some

different calls and you guys are going to
tell me like this resonates, this doesn't.

So I don't even know what
that looks like exactly yet.

I just, I'm constantly listening to that.

I'm kind of watching.

What I'm seeing in my clients.

I'm watching and what's he in my own
family and saying like, okay I don't

want to be a part of the problem I want
to make sure that what I do really does

help I don't ever want to regret the
way that I approach things and say like

because of what I did This may have
caused more problems than then good.

Mark Butler: Self
obsession is not positive.

It's really about our character
development who am I becoming?

What is the nature of my character?

Am I becoming a better and better person?

Which isn't it crazy?

That to invite people to become better
people Would sound so weird in a

coaching or a therapeutic environment.

Chantel Allen: Yeah, no, I totally agree.

You just don't hear it.

Mark Butler: And I think one of the
reasons you don't hear it is that people

are more afraid than ever of claiming a
dogma or claiming,, a specific philosophy

and saying, I'm organizing my life
around living this philosophy and growing

within this philosophy like a faith.

So for me, what you said is beautiful.

It's like, I'm going to use thought work
because thought work helps me become

a dispassionate observer of what's
flowing through my head and how it's

impacting my emotional state and how
it's impacting my behaviors and choices.

That's incredibly powerful.

I will always be so grateful to
the life coach school and to Brooke

Castillo for helping me shine a
light on that in a way that I'd

never, certainly never had before.

And I also think it's
not the complete picture.

Then we get into emotions because our,
our experience of life is emotion.

And so learning to feel those
emotions and understand them and

figure out what information they
have for us, incredibly powerful.

But then we take both of those things.

We take thought work and
we take emotional work.

And where we really want to apply those
things is in character development.

Yes.

How do I use thought work and emotions
work to become a better person, to become

happier in my relationships, healthier in
my relationships, to be of higher service

to my small community and to the world at
large, all the work has to be in service

of becoming something that we aren't yet.

Even though we're good and
we're we're worthy and etc.

This isn't about going
from unworthy to worthy.

It's about going for it., Less
developed to more developed.

Chantel Allen: Right.

Well, and I think back to the
very beginning with coaching, I

used to say that phrase of like,
we got to help you be selfish.

So you could be self less.

I would say that all of the time,
but that's kind of gotten lost in

all of this of like, yes, be selfish.

Like I love coaching because it helps
us, like you said, know the power of our

thoughts, know the power of our emotions,
but we've kind of forgotten that selfless.

And I'm calling myself out here too.

It's I've kind of been so
focused on myself sometimes that.

It, it's created this place
where it's all about me, right?

So we need to get back to the
selfless place and being out there

serving the world, bringing us to
it so that we can help other people.

Because, so many people
are lonely right now.

That loneliness is on, is
an epidemic and it's, why?

Because we're so focused on ourselves
and our problems and our emotions

and we forget that we can just,
we can notice those, but get up

and go, go serve other people, go
Bring your light to other people.

Mark Butler: Yeah, this is
outside my lane of expertise.

So this is just hearsay But I have
heard that when people have been

diagnosed with real depression one
of the best Prescriptions is service.

Yeah, Jordan.

I think

Chantel Allen: said that Jordan Peterson.

Mark Butler: Oh, did he?

Yeah,

Chantel Allen: pretty sure He said

Mark Butler: you hear that you
think well, yeah, of course

Chantel Allen: But

Mark Butler: Kate and Charlie,
my wife and son, they just got

back from a trip to Mexico where
they were part of a big group.

And in three days they built a
house for a family, from scratch,

no house before house after.

Wow.

That's so cool.

And my 16 year old son comes home.

He went in bad attitude.

Of course he's 16.

He came home glowing.

That's so cool.

He's like, dad, I just.

I just, I want to be back there tomorrow.

That's so cool.

Yeah, of course you do.

You feel amazing.

You helped.

Yeah.

So I think our work, our thought
work, whatever our particular modality

is,

it will fall flat if it's ultimately in
service of self obsession, but it will

flourish if it's in service of becoming
a more developed person who's of greater,

you know, who has greater enjoyments,
richer life experience, and is of higher.

Service to to humanity.

I think that's the next evolution because
we have too many examples now of people

who , you know my I don't know if i've
ever said this on the podcast, but We

we know that one of the main or two
of the main goals of certain coaching

philosophies is, you know, skinny and rich

And now we have plenty of examples
of skinny rich miserable people

so it's not that we're anti fitness,
and it's not that we're anti wealth.

Right.

It's that we know that when
we pursue them for, empty

reasons, they are empty results.

Chantel Allen: Well, and
again, it kind of goes back to

where I'm at with my coaching.

Like I said, that consult that I had
a couple weeks ago where this person's

like, well, what, what, what am I
going to get from coaching with you?

And I'm like, I don't know,
like I'm not selling a result.

And I think that goes totally against
the marketing of like, well, you have

to have a result that you're selling.

And of course I talked to him
about what would be different, but

it's not this flashy bang, bang
of like, you're going to make.

You know, 6, 000 in the next
two weeks working with me, or

you're going to lose 20 pounds.

And I had a lot of drama about that.

I was like, I have to figure out what it
is that I'm selling that compels people.

And I think again, not that I'm trying
to sell myself here, but it's just like,

I think the way that I approach my life
now, that's the selling component of it.

It's not that I have
to go and sell people.

It's just like, you see what I'm doing.

You see that I'm out serving.

And that compels people.

And I think we forget that as coaches
is we think we have to sell the product.

And it's like, you're selling you,
you're, you're the example of kind of

what you're saying, the character, right?

Be the example of the
character, be selfless.

That's going to compel way more clients
to you than any marketing scheme

that you could ever come up with.

Mark Butler: I really want to hear
you talk about that evolution.

We know how you changed in your
approach to your self development

work and your work with your clients.

But I know that you also had a big
journey in terms of how you talk

about your work, how you market
your work, how you sell your work.

What did it look like then?

What does it look like now?

Chantel Allen: You are a big help with
us that I give so much credit to you

with this because before again, it was
kind of coming out of the box, right?

I was told to do Facebook ads.

I was told to do the webinar funnels.

I did all of those things.

And again, I'm not, I'm not knocking it.

I think it's got a place for it.

It did help me to kind of sort
of kind of figure out my voice

at that time of, you know, how I
can phrase it in a certain way.

But the more mechanical I found
out that I was with my marketing,

the less people that I got.

The way that I actually found more
of my clients was relationship based.

So doing live events, I had several
live events here in my small town where

I would have 50, 60 people show up.

And that's where I got a
majority of my clients to start.

I

Mark Butler: didn't know that.

50 or 60.

Chantel Allen: Yeah, I did lunch and
learned like where you would have

just ladies come over and we do a
potluck and we would just do coaching

no strings attached whatsoever.

So I realized like my voice and
people actually experiencing things

or just a relationship in general.

It's way more compelling than an ad
that they're going to see or because

I think about what resonates for me
again, kind of being my own client

here is like, I get so many emails.

And again, if emails
work for you, fantastic.

But so many people put pressure.

Mark Butler: I know.

I'll say it.

I'll say it.

If other people won't, they don't work.

They

Chantel Allen: don't work.

Mark Butler: The emails that you're
talking about that we both know.

Chantel Allen: Yes.

Mark Butler: Like act now.

And yes.

Chantel Allen: Yeah, they don't work well.

And not only that, I don't
look at people's emails.

Like I, why do I expect my people to
open emails if I'm not opening up emails?

Mark Butler: Those emails
train us to ignore them.

Chantel Allen: Oh, that's a good

Mark Butler: point.

They train us.

I know what's in that
message before I open it.

And it's you asking me for something.

So true.

You've trained me to ignore you.

So true.

Whereas we can send emails where conscious
or unconscious, they know, I know that

you've got something in there for me.

Yeah.

And that's the one we open.

Chantel Allen: Exactly.

And I just, so I, for a long time
I did that, you know, you know, all

the emails and everything, but I
came back to like, what works for me.

And so now I'm back to, for
one, I don't market at all.

I don't have anything
that I put out there.

I just have my simple podcast.

I have Instagram that I'm trying
and playing around with, but it's

not to get something anymore.

It's more of like, I'm just putting
things out there that like is on my

mind that I'm like, you know what?

I think this would
really benefit somebody.

And it's been interesting.

The more fun I've been having with it.

I've been doing reels.

I hate reels, by the way, I remember
I was talking about this when it

first came out with like the pointing.

We're like, I will never
do any of that stuff.

But I've been having fun with just like
other, I have like Harry Potter inside

my reels, or I have Channing Tatum inside
my, like, I'm having fun making fun of.

Coaching and, and like, it feels good
to me and it's, I've been getting

so many more conversations about it.

So I think it's just like finding what
works for you and making that fun.

I think that's the biggest thing.

If it's not fun, then don't, don't try it.

And if you have an agenda, I
think that's the other thing.

Then it's not going to work too.

If you're trying to get six clients
in a month or whatever it is.

This, I don't know, it doesn't work,
so I think it's just showing up and

serving and that's where I'm at.

Just relationships.

I do, if I, if I have any kind of
agenda, I do try and have several

conversations with people a month.

That's kind of my goal.

It's like, Hey, I just want to
reach out to this past client that

I haven't talked to in a year.

And just, Hey, I just want to touch base.

And it's interesting
how those can lead to.

people wanting to sign up
again because I've changed.

I've changed.

They've changed.

They're in a new place.

It's just been great.

Just having no agenda
conversations with people.

That's been way more of a selling
point than anything I can do online.

Mark Butler: That's so good,

Chantel Allen: but that's from you, Mark.

I will tell you that you're the
person that helped me figure that out.

Because for me, that's again, I wasn't

Mark Butler: saying it's so good.

Chantel Allen: Well, but again, it's
like, that feels out of control.

Like the control person to me is
like, just have relationships.

Like there's nothing that I can.

Like grab onto and say, this
is the thing that works.

Whereas everybody else is saying
like, do these Facebook ads and

you're supposed to get this results.

So it felt scary to lean into something
that there is not as much control

into it, but for some reason it works.

Mark Butler: Well, when we talked a
couple of weeks ago, you said a higher

percentage of your, new clients recently
have come directly from referrals.

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

Every one of them actually.

Mark Butler: Really?

Chantel Allen: Yep.

Every single one of them.

Mark Butler: Referrals from, I mean,
I gave you a referral recently.

Yep.

Other clients

Chantel Allen: or they're, they,
they were in the coaching group that

I was in, that I coached in before.

And they're like, I heard from another
friend that was in the coaching group

that you're coaching on this, you know,
so it's just been like word of mouth.

And again, I have no control over
that, which is sometimes very scary,

but it's, I like it way easier than
having to come up with the funnels.

Just all of the tech and everything.

I'm kind of done trying
to figure that all out.

Mark Butler: No control,
but a ton of influence.

And that's the difference.

Chantel Allen: And it's fun.

Like that's, I think we say
that as coaches, Oh, we're

just doing this to have fun.

But I don't think we
actually really believe that.

And it's like, no, we don't.

Again, going back to your character
of like, you got to go first.

If you really want people to be compelled
to you, show people that you're having

fun in your life and in your business.

Cause I wouldn't want to work with
somebody that's like all business and

strict and looks like they're burning
the lamp at both sides or whatever.

It's not compelling to me.

Mark Butler: Great stuff.

This is why I wanted you on the show.

Chantel Allen: That's what I love
that you're doing this series

because conversations are what sell.

It's not that I'm saying people are
going to come to me from this, but

it's just, this is what's compelling.

Real conversations, no agenda, no,
like outline of trying to sell a

value system or anything like that.

It's just, it's real people
having conversations.

Mark Butler: We don't know that from
you appearing on this particular

podcast in this particular episode, we
don't know that there's going to be a

straight line from that to a client.

Right.

But we do know that this type of
activity will produce clients.

That's the thing you can count on.

Yes.

If I continue to act this way and be this
way, I will end up happy with the result.

Whether or not any individual
thing produces a specific

result in a specific timeframe.

Chantel Allen: Well, I think you
did this on a couple weeks ago on

your podcast with the launch, right?

If you're going into a launch
looking for a particular outcome

or whatever, you're going to be
disappointed every single time.

So if I went into this conversation
being like, I'm going to get so many

clients out of this or whatever.

I would be so much more weird on our
conversation and it's just everything.

And so it's, it is, it's letting go
of that outcome and just showing

up as myself, take it or leave
it basically and trusting it.

Mark Butler: Thank you for doing this.

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

Thank you.

This has been fun.

I want more of these.

Mark Butler: Well, thank you, my friend.

Yeah.

This has been fun.

You've got a call to get to.

I do.