A Podcast for Coaches

Hey, this is Mark Butler and you are
listening to a podcast for coaches.

Last week I talked about group coaching.

I shared some of my concerns about
the way I have seen it done the

way I think it is done on average.

And.

I agree with what I said.

Mostly I woke up on Friday morning
having recorded on Thursday, and I

had that feeling that I get sometimes,
maybe you get this feeling sometimes

that something wasn't quite right.

It's just this internal thing.

Sometimes it wakes me up in
the early hours of the morning.

This time it didn't.

But when I did wake up on Friday
morning, I had this sense that

something wasn't quite right with how
I had talked about group coaching.

Now I know that I like most of what
I said and I like most of the way

that I said it and I think that same
day I got an email from a listener

who was very specific and very, Uh,
Generous in her praise of the episode.

She said that she thought there was a
lot of goodness there and that she was

going to share that with her community,

and of course that kind of feedback
means the world to me, I am not immune

and I am not beyond enjoying the,
that kind of external validation.

And then I had a coaching session
with a client just a couple

of days ago where she said.

That episode nailed it.

She's a person who's done group
coaching programs and enjoyed those

group coaching programs very much and
sees them as positive and beneficial.

But she said the way you contrast
group coaching versus one on one

coaching lands with me, 100%.

Okay, great.

, I'm glad I'm grateful that my
own sense of some of the value

of those ideas from last week.

I'm glad that, that there's resonance
there with at least two people.

And yet I had this unsettled feeling,
like the whole story wasn't being told.

I know it's not my job
to tell the whole story.

I know other people are telling
other versions of the story

that are valuable and useful.

And those, those are getting attention
to, and that's as it should be.

But I don't like the idea that I would.

Leave information out or leave my opinions
out that I think maybe create a more

robust view of the, of the whole thing.

So today I want to talk a little
bit more about group coaching, but I

want to look at it through the lens
of what I think is great about it.

And how I think that where it's maybe not
quite great yet, it could be made better.

I recognize the potential for my
own ego getting involved there

because I'm sitting here saying,
I see a thing that's not great.

That could be great.

And I'm going to tell you how that is,
but this is a podcast and this is the

internet and that's what we do here.

So first of all, a couple of huge
benefits that I don't know that I

called out in last week's episode.

Number one is that the price of group
coaching typically is lower than

the price of one on one coaching.

I gotta say I hate the word accessible.

It gets used all the time
in the coaching world.

And I think the reason I hate it is
that it's very often being said by a

person who is scared of selling a more
expensive thing or scared of doing the

marketing and the personal development
around selling a more expensive things.

So they default to this idea that
I'm going to make it more accessible,

which they think excuses them
from the hard work of personal

development, marketing, and sales.

That they perceive to be associated
with expensive one on one coaching.

Okay.

So I don't like it when I hear the word
accessible in conversations with other

coaches and yet what else could we call
a program that costs 49 or 99 or 149 per

month as it relates to a multi thousand
dollar one on one coaching experience.

It simply is more accessible and
because of its accessibility,

thousands and tens of thousands
of people have gotten the benefit.

Of being in a space where important
topics are being discussed in a

mostly helpful way that helps the
participant activate themselves to

make some changes in a way that they
end up being thrilled about, right?

They improve, they move forward.

And it's in no small part because
this thing had a price tag on it

that was easier for them to pay.

That's so powerful.

It's so important.

There are programs like,, my friend
Jody Moore's membership, my friend

Edie Wadsworth's membership, you know,
even self coaching scholars from Brooke

Castillo, I shouldn't, I shouldn't
say even, but what I mean is I've

never participated in self coaching
scholars and it is 300 or was 300 a

month, I'm not sure it exists anymore.

I haven't, I think something's going on
there, I think, but I have bookkeeping

clients who paid for self coaching
scholars for years at 300 per month.

They must have been
getting something from it.

it must have impacted them in some
positive way because 300 a month, it

might be more accessible than a 10,
000 one on one coaching program, but

it's not a small amount of money.

So.

There's something about these group
and even larger group experiences that

clearly is benefiting people and the
comparatively lower price is part of that.

And so I respect those programs for what
they do, even when I haven't engaged

directly with, , with those programs,

you can't do a thing at that scale
for that many years for that many

people without it offering benefit.

It's just impossible.

So I respect those programs and I
respect the fact that people want to pay

for and participate in those programs.

I think one of the biggest benefit of
these kinds of programs, whether it's a

multi thousand person membership or a 10
person group is that there's a sort of

osmosis that happens in these settings.

If the calls are recorded and then if
I'm able to consume those recordings

and I'm able to hear good principles
repeated over and over and over again,

there's this osmosis to that where it
starts to seep into my consciousness and

my, and my subconscious, and it starts
to impact my behavior in a positive way.

If you were to pin me down on the
biggest benefit of one to many coaching

environments, it would be that osmosis.

It would be the fact that simply being
in the presence of a bunch of people who

are looking to improve in specific ways,

changes you even without
you realizing I'm for that.

I think one of the reasons that
osmosis can happen is because

there's something happening.

Liberating and empowering about sitting
in a room with a bunch of people who

think about these things in a similar way.

I recognize that there can
be an unhealthy group thing.

Can I, I put it in the hands of
the facilitator of the community

owner and community manager to do
a good job of managing that and

making sure that what has this
powerful beneficial osmotic effect.

Doesn't become cultish
and group think ish.

And these things can happen.

And sometimes they do happen, but the
positive side of these communities is

that many people who want to make changes
in themselves and in their relationships

and their way of being feel very alone in
that when they sit in their families, in

their book clubs, in their churches, , in
their companies, they hear the way other

people talk about some of the subjects.

, it can be incredibly lonely and isolating.

These memberships and scaled group
coaching programs create an environment

in which a person can say, I'm not
alone and I'm not crazy because.

All of these people seem to have the same
desire that I have to learn and to grow.

Just knowing that you're not alone and
that you're not crazy and that your way

of thinking has merit to other people
and they share it, that can unlock you.

You can't have some of that in
a one on one coaching setting.

In fact, you can have a lot of it in a
one on one coaching setting as you and

your coach work together to validate
you, to validate your way of thinking,

to find your growth edges, to confront
you, to challenge you, all of that.

But there's also something powerful
about sitting in a room with five or

10 or 500 and knowing that everyone
in there is thinking along similar

lines, not thinking exactly the same
way, but thinking along similar lines.

So for me, that's the power of
these scaled coaching experiences.

They are, by definition,
more financially accessible.

They offer a sense of community where
you're not alone and you're not crazy.

And in that sense of community,
there's this osmosis effect where

just you sit there and you just
absorb it and it does impact you.

Now, how do we make it better?

Well, last week I talked about how
I think that in group settings,

there's a few things you can do.

You can do teaching, you can do
facilitation and you can do coaching.

I do think all of them have
their place in a group setting.

For example, I think that you can improve
a group experience by actually teaching.

Creating an environment that
encourages study, preparation,

and self confrontation.

So instead of creating an environment
that is just consumption, And

almost entertainment and, and media.

An environment in which a person
can come and they can just absorb.

I realized I just said there's
benefit to that simple absorption

and I believe it, but the next level
is invite that person to go beyond

consumption and to go to study and to
preparation and to self confrontation.

And then be a great teacher
of a specific philosophy.

I don't think in a group setting, I
don't think we should pretend that

there's no dogma wherever there is a
group gathered around a specific idea

or set of ideas or goal or set of goals.

There is dogma.

It's inherent to the environment, because
if we didn't have any dogma, if we didn't

have any shared beliefs, we wouldn't
be here in that particular setting.

Even if your dogma is
anti dogma, that is dogma.

I know this is getting a
little meta and abstract and

weird, but listen, hear me out.

The reason you gather is because you
share a set of beliefs or a set of goals.

And if that's the case, then lean in.

Codify.

This is how we talk about this.

This is our source material.

Let's study our source material.

Let's master our source material.

Let's challenge each other
on our source material.

Let's self confront around the
application of the source material.

So we go beyond just listening to the
coach, talk to a person, and then sitting

back comfortably and saying, yeah,
she really needs to figure that out.

Or, Oh boy, I don't have that problem.

Or even, Hmm, that's
probably beneficial to me.

I should think about that.

The next level beyond that is I'm showing
up to this classroom, zoom call, whatever

it is, having studied and prepared and ask
myself hard questions about this material.

That's a way to level up the whole
experience, the whole environment,

actually teach and be great at it.

I also talked last week
about facilitation,

My definition of facilitation is
gathering a group of people and then

as a facilitator drawing the knowledge
and the wisdom out of that group.

It is slightly different from
teaching, the same source material.

In facilitation, when I gather the group
together, there's an assumption of the

group's, Knowledge and preparation.

, And then we're drawing their
knowledge out of them along with their

personal experiences and insights.

So there's no lecture and listen,
there's no quiz at the end of class.

There is a discussion prompt, and then
there is a skilled facilitator drawing

out the experiences and the ideas of
each person in the room, and there's

real transformation available there.

There's a reason.

That support groups and 12
step communities and churches.

There's a reason these things
have persisted for so long.

It's because there's power in
gathering and it's like counseling

together, gathering and facilitating
the sharing of knowledge and insight.

So be great at it.

If you're going to have a scaled
one to many experience with people.

Become a great facilitator.

And if you want to go even a step beyond
that, help participants become great

facilitators and then enable them,
have them form facilitation groups.

Sometimes I think for good reason,
the owners and the managers of these

communities are worried about enabling
facilitation between participants.

I share your concern.

I've been in these spaces a lot , and
one thing I've become completely

convinced of is wherever you gather five
plus people, there will be one crazy.

There will be one person who doesn't
seem to have quite the social

IQ that you would hope, and they
want to dominate the conversation.

They want to go off on tangents.

They want to ask inappropriate
questions of the facilitator

or of other participants.

And because of the almost mathematical
certainty of that one person in every

group and dear listener, if you say to
yourself, I've never been in a group

that's like that, I'm so sorry to tell
you this, it's time to look in the mirror.

There's a crazy in every group.

That's larger than about five.

Okay.

I'm exaggerating.

It's not every group.

But you're all laughing right now
because you've been in those groups,

a face popped into your head and
you're like, yep, him or, or yep, her.

So the thing to do is get good.

And managing the crazy, probably
starting by not calling it crazy.

I can do that because this is the
podcast and, I'm not in a room with

five or 10 or a hundred people.

So I'm not calling out a specific
person, but if I had a group of

10 in front of me, I can guarantee
you in the first session, I would

identify the person that I probably
need to take aside after the meeting.

And, and find the kindest,
clearest way to say that's a

little too much airtime for you.

In the next session, I need you to
listen more than you talk, et cetera.

These kinds of conversations are not easy,
but if you want to do scaled coaching,

and if you want to actually elevate
participants, you have to get good at

the associated skills, like having hard
conversations with difficult participants.

It's the job.

The payoff is.

If you can get good at elevating other
people and helping them become skillful

in facilitation, now the community can
actually grow beyond your ability to

facilitate and to teach and to coach.

I'm not pretending that I'm even there.

The reason we're having these
conversations on this podcast

is because I want to get there.

I see potential benefits for
the people I engage with and

I also see financial benefits.

Potentially, I'm not above
wanting financial benefits.

But I want to be good at it.

And I want to create amazing
one to many experiences.

And part of that is not just becoming a
skilled facilitator, but helping other

people become skilled facilitators.

Last thing I do think you
can coach in a group setting.

Here's how I would approach it to make
sure that the coaching is as useful

as possible to the person receiving
it and to the people observing.

I would create an environment in which
if a person is going to be coached

in the group, they've done some
amount of preparation ahead of time.

So for example, you might create
a community wide template that we

understand is the thing we do before
we ask for coaching in a group setting.

It involves self inquiry, and then the
person brings the, the fruits of that self

inquiry, the results of that self inquiry
to the group, to the coach and says,

here's what I've come up with so far.

I'd like some help.

I think, and this is just a hypothesis,
I think what can happen if you do this is

you get through the throat clearing and
the thought downloading and the rambling.

. I tend to be a person that has to
verbally process a lot on my way to

figuring out what my point is and what
I'm trying to get help with when I'm

talking to my coach, , that may be an
essential part of my process, but if I

were a participant in a group program,
it would be helpful to me if the coach

said, here's what you're going to do,
Mark, you're going to take the template.

And the template says, state your problem.

And then it simply does this.

It repeats.

Why is that a problem?

Five times.

So state your problem and then
say, why is that a problem?

Give an answer.

Why is that a problem?

Give an answer.

You repeat that five times.

Somewhere in your responses to
why is that a problem will be.

A very real thing that you and your
coach can grab onto and talk about in a

10 or 15 or 20 minute interaction in a
group setting that will be more impactful

to the participant than the normal
approach, which is how can I help today?

And then we go straight into some
advice giving, et cetera, like we

talked about in last week's episode.

I'm not proposing necessarily
what we might call self coaching.

In my observation of clients and
people in these groups, people

aren't very good at self coaching.

They're just not, that's the power
of having a coach, getting a coach.

So if we keep the preparation
exercise simpler, where we just

have people download their thoughts
in response to a question, like,

tell me why that's a problem.

Why is that a problem?

Why is that a problem?

Why is that a problem?

As you drill on something like
that, the person's thoughts are

revealed, and then we can work on
those thoughts and their fruits.

So summing up, there's power in
scaled coaching experiences and

in scaled coaching communities.

I'm a fan.

I'm especially a fan.

If the scaled coaching community
is open and honest about what

it can do and what it can't do.

I'm a fan if the facilitators behind
that community, the owners, the

coaches, if they decide to become
masterful teachers around the

principles that the community agrees on.

If the owner of the community and
the coaches in the community decide

to become great facilitators, where
they draw the knowledge and experience

out of the participants in a way that
makes all participants better off.

And if in their coaching, the
actual coaching they do, if they

invite people to prepare themselves.

Before receiving that coaching so
that it's less advice giving and

more actual coaching and engagement
with the person's thoughts and

with the impact of those thoughts.

I think it's more work
to do what I'm saying.

I wonder whether I would ever
persuade myself to attempt it.

I don't know yet, but this is
my hypothesis for how a good

thing can become a better thing.

And I'll talk to you next time.