A Podcast for Coaches

Mark Butler: This is
a podcast for coaches.

I'm Mark Butler.

I'm here with my friend Chantal Allen,
who I wanted to bring back on the podcast.

And I remember us maybe having
something we were going to talk about,

but now I don't remember what it was.

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

I'm going to be launching a new program
here in a little bit for coaches.

And yeah, so we were going to
just have a conversation around it.

So

Mark Butler: remind me, is it,
you and I've talked for a couple

of months now about creating
practice spaces for coaches.

Is that what you have in mind?

Remind me what you have in mind.

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

So this is not that yet.

I foresee that being something
that I implement maybe

collaborate with in the future.

But as of right now, I, this program
is more for an intimate one on one

coaching program for the time being.

And then with the information and getting
the just maybe some more gaps and

things that I can see in there, I would
love to create a course for coaches.

It's in the near future, but this is
just like a subset before that, that the

goal is to get more information from it.

So

Mark Butler: I think when you and I talked
the other day, you had mentioned it's

something you're going to do one on one,
but it's with this specific intent of

mentoring the coach, helping the coach
become more skillful, more confident.

Is that right?

Chantel Allen: Yeah, because this is
my belief and you can tell me what

your thoughts are on this Mark, but I
believe you can't help somebody if you

haven't gone to that level yourself,
like you have to be willing if you're

willing to do emotional work, or
if you're wanting to help somebody.

I see this all the time with clients is
they're wanting to give their clients,

these amazing tools that they're hearing
about, but they often are hitting these

blocks or these walls because they
haven't been willing to do the work

themselves first, or at least go deep
enough to get that work done first.

So the hope that I have
is to help coaches.

Let's go deeper.

Let's help you build confidence
because you're doing it first.

Then you're going to have the skillsets
and the ability, the vulnerability to

now, you Help your clients do that.

Mark Butler: Can you think of an area in
which I'm putting you on the spot here so

we can, yeah, we can pause and brainstorm,
but can you think of an area in which, or

an example where you might observe a coach
that you can tell hasn't done the depth of

their own work and how that might sound?

In their coaching versus someone
who has, and how that might sound.

What does this look like in the wild?

Chantel Allen: In the wild?

Okay.

So I have thought a lot about this
'cause I, I have to be careful that

I don't think I know better than
what I think coaches are aware of.

So I have to be careful with this.

But this is, I think that's why I'm
trying to create this, is to see

if people do resonate with what
I'm seeing as a gap in coaching.

But what I've noticed in the wild, I
love how you word it like that is pe I

notice coaches are talking a lot more.

they think they have the
advice that the code, their

clients need a little bit more.

So a client will present with a
situation that they're going through.

And instead of maybe diving and asking
more questions or getting clarification

or even reading their client a little
bit more, they dive into the strategies

or the tools that they have been trained
on, which is amazing, but they're leading

with that rather than taking a step
back and having the ability to sit and

read their client a little bit better.

Mark Butler: What do you think contributes
to coaches falling into that pattern?

Chantel Allen: So this is, I'll
even just speak for myself.

I think it's because you're
trying to prove to yourself

that you're a good enough coach.

That's just my take on it
is I think it's a prover.

It's a striver.

It's an achiever.

That's coming out thinking like,
okay, if I speak enough, or if I show

that I know this information enough,
then I'm doing a good job as a coach.

So it comes back without them realizing.

I think this is something I had to
come to my own realization of is, It

came back around to okay, Chantelle,
you're trying to prove something

to yourself in a roundabout way.

So it was that's why I'm saying I
had to do a lot of healing for myself.

I had to stop proving,
I had to stop striving.

I had to stop trying to achieve
things through my clients.

I had a lot of work that I
needed to do to calm down.

You're good.

You're whole, you're complete.

No matter what.

And if you're watching this actually
So I have to be like hey, I'm gonna

post for just a short period of time,
so you can see what my video is like.

So I'll be like, if I post for a week,
I can't think of a video of an umbrella

that I post for, maybe a week or so.

But if I wanted to show you down a
little bit, with my coaching business.

Mark Butler: Oh, yeah, I used to do this.

I think I've told this story a
lot, but I used to do this in

my money coaching practice early
in my money coaching practice.

Like we're talking 2015 and I
would lose sleep at night over

my client's money choices.

Oh yeah.

And it made me eventually admit to myself
that I must have believed that the

purpose of the practice was to get people
to do what I thought they should do.

But, and I agree, I wasn't aware of
this, but I agree with you in hindsight.

It was so that I could feel successful
and so that I could feel in my case

in particular, so that I could feel
confident that people would keep paying

me so I could pay my bills, et cetera.

Yes.

The idea that I would let go
of my client's choices at the

time was terrifying to me.

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

I think, and I love what you're saying
there is we try to, without realizing

it, trying to get a clients to some kind
of result so that we can say Oh, I do

give my clients results or, Oh, I do
give them breakthroughs or a hot ahas.

Like I always, what's interesting to me,
and I'm not saying this is across the

board, but I often see coaches trying
to leave their clients on a high note.

Like they, they want them to walk
away from a session feeling good

just so that they feel good that,
Oh, they got something out of this.

And I would actually push back and what
is wrong with having a client leave mad

or upset or in an uncomfortable place.

And I think that would hit on, you ask
yourself that question, like what's

wrong with my client being upset?

You'll find there's, it's
hitting on something.

It means this about myself or
it means this about whatever.

So yeah, I think it's
just changing that too.

Mark Butler: I think I'm guilty of that
a percentage of the time, in the last

two, three, five minutes of the call,
maybe I want to offer them hope or point

out the positive, or I'm going to have
to look at my, I'll have to watch myself.

I don't know if I do that all the time,
but I think I would be prone to that.

Here's a story that proves your point.

I was working with my own coach.

This is probably five years ago now.

And this is a coach.

This is Bev.

I can't, I don't know why
I would hide who it is.

It's Bev Aaron.

I was working with Bev and
we were having a session and.

Bev was so great.

That was such a great experience
for me in one session.

I can't remember why, but I got so angry.

I just felt this rage building me.

It wasn't at Bev, of course, but just
whatever we were talking about, I remember

being caught off guard by how angry I
became in the middle of the session.

And then the session ended

and she texted me that night.

Totally well intentioned.

I could see myself doing this and
she just texted and said, you good?

Cause we left it not good.

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

Mark Butler: And I replied and
said, oh yeah, I feel amazing.

It passed quickly as we know, emotions do.

Chantel Allen: Yes.

Mark Butler: Because what she
facilitated for me was the allowing of

the anger to just come up and be there.

And I would say within minutes of the
end of that zoom call, I was probably

just bounding off to do whatever I
was going to do for the rest of the day.

So , she did check in with me, but
she didn't try to Take my negative

emotion as a way of soothing herself.

And I think coaches are
probably very prone to that.

Chantel Allen: And again, I
don't think it's all or nothing.

I think it's like, we can never leave
them on a positive note, like always

make them pain leave in a painful place.

That's not what we're saying either, but
it is, it's just watching our tendencies

as coaches is like, what is the goal?

And I know we always talk about,
especially in the life coach school,

just, we don't want to have agendas.

But if we're not careful, we
sometimes still have agendas.

Like we say that logically, we don't
want to have an agenda with our clients,

but you can sometimes feel like if
something's happening with a client

or whatever, we might inadvertently
step in with kind of an agenda of

trying to get them to go someplace
or feel something or whatever.

Yep.

And so it's just it's just, we want
more observation with our coaching

is really what it comes down to.

Mark Butler: I heard, I won't remember
where I got this the other day.

Oh, I do remember where I got it.

It was a TV show.

It was almost like a documentary style
show where a therapist's interactions

with her clients were The show and
it , I only made it through one episode.

I actually ended up hating it.

But,

in one of the interactions in
the show, a therapist said, our

only job is to increase their
understanding of the current dilemma,

or it was something like that.

I was like, that's, I'm stealing that.

I don't like this show.

I'm stealing that though.

Yeah.

Because yeah, we're trying to
bring them into higher awareness.

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

Mark Butler: of what
they're currently facing.

I think there's some other
contributing factors here to why we,

and I include myself in this, why
we might talk too much sometimes.

Number one, I think we slip

into the belief that coaching is more
about answers than it is about questions.

Yeah.

Agreed.

Like by default.

Yes.

We think that coaches,
coaching is about answers.

And if coaching is about answers,
then the quality of our coaching is

determined by the answers we have the
cleverness that we bring to a session.

And if I believe that coaching is
more about answers than questions,

then I have to talk more because
I have to share the answers.

And I know that I slip
into that sometimes.

Hopefully the balance is right.

But again, it's just
something to pay attention to.

Chantel Allen: One.

I also think that if you have
to know so much, then you have to

constantly consume as a coach too.

And again, I love to learn, but
it's just, it's this vicious

cycle of I have to know more.

I have to go through more trainings
or more, whatever certifications.

And again obviously I'm offering
a program, but it's there's a

nuance to that too, where it's
like, what are you trying to feed?

You're trying to feed something.

Cause I don't, I love knowledge,
but I honestly what do you think?

I know you gave a little bit
of a definition there, but

what is the purpose of a coach?

Mark Butler: One of the most important
purposes of a coach is to bring, is

to, man, I'm not phrasing it well.

It's to help their client connect to
the truth, but that's not the same as

connecting to the answer that I have.

And it sounds really cliche and
cheesy to say to help the client

connect to their truth, but
that is actually what I believe.

Chantel Allen: I agree.

Oh, I totally agree.

I was listening to Oh my gosh,
I'm going to get it all wrong.

Hanks.

I can't remember his name.

The podcast, I can't remember,
but he had another coach on and

he was actually an athletic coach.

And he said one of, he had one of
his athletes come up to him years

later and he said, you know what
coach, the thing that helps me the

most about what you did is you never
told me what to do and how to do it.

You just gave me the space and the
unconditional love for me to figure,

know that I had all my own answers.

And I love that.

I think to me, it's a coach and
this is piggybacking off of yours.

It's more of like we hold the space of
unconditional love for them to be able

to have the ability to let the anger come
out and let the other things come out

without judgment or trying to fix it.

It's actually Hey, I'm here.

You're safe.

You're let me just hold the space
for you to let all of this unravel

so that you can figure out the
answers that are totally within you.

Mark Butler: Some other time I want
to do a call with you where we do

talk about not the opposite of that.

Cause I, it's I want to put
in the footnotes right now.

And I want to acknowledge that
I completely agree with that.

And I have experiences both as both
client and a coach where suggesting an

alternate reality is incredibly powerful.

Yes.

Agreed.

Chantel Allen: Just not

Mark Butler: in a
gaslighting, terrible way.

Chantel Allen: But again, Mark, I
think it comes down to what you

said, you've been the client before.

So you've done the work to know
what that balance could look like.

So I think it is like understanding
as a coach, if you have not done the

deeper work to happen, to know and
facilitate, Hey, how do I just hold

unconditional love in this place?

And how do I also facilitate
a new reality here?

Like you wouldn't be able to read
the room a little bit better.

If you've been on both sides, you've
been willing to do the deeper work.

Mark Butler: Yeah.

Yeah, that's true.

Absolutely.

That's true.

I want to talk to you about
the deeper work in a second.

But first, I think there's another
factor in why coaches can fall

into the trap of talking more than
listening, giving answers more

than providing great questions.

And that is, , most of what we observe
in our community is answer giving.

Five years ago now I was in a room
with maybe 10 or 15 people who were all

participants in a coaching program.

And at some point in the
interaction, I said, wait a second.

Do you all think that coaching
is 15 minute interactions?

Where you're one of hundreds of people
on the call and the coach is very clever

and says some kind of mic droppy sorts
of things and then we go on to the next

person and the consensus in the room was.

Yeah.

Wow.

And I said, okay, no problem.

It actually doesn't mean that's bad.

It means that's a way this happens.

And I see so much benefit in
that having happened in our

world and in our community.

Okay.

Let me tell you about another type of
coaching and in this type of coaching, you

and I sit together for 50 minutes or an
hour or more, and I ask you questions and

I mostly keep my mouth shut and you talk.

A lot.

And you wander around and you change your
mind and you go off on tangents and we

just go exploring together and they were
surprised and curious that was a thing.

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

So I think it's

Mark Butler: because it's most
of what people observe and it's

a lot of what coaches observe.

Then when they get into interactions
with their clients, they pretty much just

do what they've had modeled for them.

Chantel Allen: Agreed.

It's so it's performative.

It's a performative coaching almost.

Mark Butler: It can be.

Yeah.

Chantel Allen: It

Mark Butler: can be.

And that's frustrating sometimes, but yes.

Chantel Allen: But I understand it too.

Cause I've been in the room
sometimes where I'm like, Oh

my gosh, like that hit me.

I appreciate that.

So we do try and mirror that.

Yep.

But I also know, and I don't know
if this is also true, even though

that hit me, it still didn't
transform me because it's just a good

statement or it's a good, whatever.

It just still didn't take me deeper.

If that makes any sense.

So

Mark Butler: it does make total sense
to me because one of the things that

I feel like I observe In my fellow
coaches who've mostly experienced

that type of coaching and, or what
they did in their certification

programs is they tend to reach for the
tools that their community has named.

And like these are our tools.

They tend to reach very quickly
for those tools, both in their

interactions with their clients and
in their interactions with themselves.

Yeah.

And my observation in coaching
some of them one on one is.

They're too quick to reach for a tool and
it robs them of the deeper experience,

the deeper insight into themselves.

I can reach for a tool as a way of
deflecting and avoiding, and it's

actually way too easy to do that.

So I will sometimes hear myself saying
to a client who's a coach, if they wanna

reach for a tool in the conversation and
use it to deflect, I will do something,

which I think is pretty transparent.

I don't think I'm so clever.

I pretty much will say, okay, just
pretend that I don't know what that means.

How would you say that if I
didn't know what that means?

Chantel Allen: Yes.

Mark Butler: And I'm just trying to
redirect them off the tool as an escape

hatch and get them back into okay, but
what are your thoughts and your feelings?

And can we spend time there?

Chantel Allen: I love that.

I love that so much because again,
it's, you're asking questions, you

don't know where they're trying to go.

It's, you're just facilitating
okay you've put a cap on.

What you're wanting to see, can
we go below that for a little bit?

So

Mark Butler: I think that's beautiful.

When you say deeper work what does, what
are examples of deeper work in your mind?

Chantel Allen: So I spoke to it
just a little bit, but I can go a

little bit deeper if we need to with
this, but I just, so even on the last

podcast I was on, we talked about
the fact that I am an overachiever.

I love to prove things.

I love to I'm just, I love to hustle.

And I understand now that a lot of
that, and I'm not again saying it's bad.

I think being able to get
things done is an amazing thing.

However, what I've often learned is
those type of behaviors is usually out

of some kind of trying to hide away from
some kind of thing that I grew up with,

or I'm trying to not feel a certain
thing, or I'm not trying to Whatever

it is, like some kind of uncomfortable,
negative emotion of some kind.

And so now I'm realizing we have to
do the deeper work in order for us

to really facilitate an open space.

I think about this with
my kids all of the time.

If I as a mom, I'm trying to be a
good mom because I just don't want

to feel like I'm a bad mom, then I'm
weird in my interactions with my kids.

So I have to actually, and I
know it sounds cliche, it sounds

whatever, but I have to heal.

I have to heal that part of me.

That's so afraid to be a bad mom,
because that's something that I

grew up understanding or whatever,
like you shouldn't be a bad mom.

Your kids need to be happy.

They all need to follow
this straight path.

And it just, I can see how
that has created different

interactions in my kids.

So it's the willingness for me
to go and be like, you know what?

And this sounds so weird to say it out
loud, but I'm okay to fail as a mom.

I don't even know what that means,
but that's what we're so afraid

of is I'm okay to fail as a mom.

I'm okay for my kids to not like me.

I'm okay.

And even as I say that I can feel the
resistance in my body, but I'm like,

that's what actually you have to be okay
with in order for me to show up and be

the mom that I actually do want to be.

And so it's the same thing if we translate
that over to our coaching, I noticed

at least for the first couple of years,
I what we were already saying, like I

needed to prove I need to get so many
clients in a certain way in order for

me to feel like I'm doing a good job.

I'm like, what if I am okay
with not getting another client?

Like what happened there?

And again, so much resistance
comes up, but I have to heal that.

In order for me to show up authentically
vulnerability, like all the things

that we talk about, I have to do that
deeper work first in order for me to

actually be the coach that I want to be.

Mark Butler: That's really good.

This idea of the way you just
said that made me think getting

clients isn't about the clients.

If my added, if I'm, if I feel
driven or anxious or urgent about

quote, getting clients, that's
not about them or for them.

It's about me and for me.

Chantel Allen: And it's tricky because of
course we do also have yes, I do want to

help my clients, but I think it, like what
you said, the anxiety, the pressure that's

there, that's an indicator that there's
something else that's going on there.

What if we never get
another coaching client?

What do we make that mean about ourselves?

What if we don't make another
dollar in our business?

What do we make that mean about ourselves?

That will tell you a wound or
something that is you're operating

from that is usually actually
preventing us from getting our clients.

Cause whatever we resist.

We persist.

So if you're so afraid of not
getting clients, guess what?

You're not going to get any clients.

So it's just crazy what we do.

Mark Butler: When you imagine working
with coaches on these kinds of things,

like in this new program, how do
you imagine the interactions going?

Chantel Allen: I honestly, it
is a lot of just coaching them.

And just understanding what their
underlying beliefs and things

that they, again, it's the blind
spots, like being able to hold the

space for them to see what they
haven't allowed themselves to see.

But I've, so I've done this with so
many coaches already up to this point.

And the thing that I hear over
and over again is You show me

what powerful questions look like.

And just asking me those questions
has made me a better coach.

Because if you go through that
experience, you're obviously embodying it.

So sometimes we like put so much into it.

I need to be mentored or
I need to, and I get that.

But I think again, you living through
your own coaching experience.

That is training.

That is you going through
and getting mentored.

I'm more than happy to in our coaching
sessions, if they have a specific question

about Hey, can we talk about this?

Absolutely.

But I probably will always bring it
back to what are you making it mean

about this interaction or what is
coming up for you in that interaction?

Mark Butler: It can be really
hard when someone's asking you a

tactical question to tell them.

Your tactical question
is the wrong question.

And I have to be careful because I
do have a know it all tendency and

my know it all tendency can rear
its head in a client relationship.

So sometimes my urge to say your
tactical question is not relevant

right now is actually it hurts trust.

It hurts rapport.

And I think it can hurt
the coaching relationship.

So I try to put myself in check and also.

I want them to hear me say, you're
asking me about this little tactical

thing here about your practice.

I'm promising you that absolutely nailing
that little thing about your practice

will have no impact on your practice.

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

Mark Butler: It's inconsequential.

It's fun to think about.

It's a fun place to play.

Maybe it's an amazing distraction,
but even if you absolutely nail

it, there will be no measurable
positive impact on your practice.

I'll give you an answer, but i'm going to
follow that answer with remember This is a

lot more about you and your internal state
than it is about any specific tactical

application of a thing in your practice

Chantel Allen: Cause I'm sure if you
any of the coaches that are listening

here, they may have been like, I've
tried all of the things I've checked off

all the boxes and I'm still not getting
clients or I'm still not whatever.

So it is, it's, if you start to
look at it, like really the boxes

are not what create our business.

It really is.

I've noticed this change and I love this
phrase that I heard someone say that it's

it's, we're shifting from hustle to heart.

And I love that so much because it
really is like the hustle used to

work back in the 60s and the 50s.

It needed to it was
something that we needed.

We had to perform, but I really do believe
where we are right now in this society

and where we are is just human beings.

And we have to stop hustling so much.

It's not working.

Like you literally, I talked to so many
people, like I'm working 80 hours a

week, or I'm working 60 hours a week,
and I'm just not making ends meet.

I'm like, I know.

So let's slow down and let's
understand what is going on.

It's that whole cliche of slow down to
make more slow down to have more impact.

It's we say it, but I think a lot of
coaches want to put the, but, or the

and on top of that to say no, but I
really do need my websites or I really do

need my Instagram, or I really do need.

And I'm like, That's
what is that solving for?

You're solving for something that
you're not letting yourself see.

Mark Butler: Yeah.

Yeah.

That's true.

That's true.

We will still do tactical
things in the business.

We'll have a, we'll have a plan in our
business that may include a website

or an Instagram page, feed, whatever.

It's how we view those things and
how we view their importance in the

creation of the practice we want.

Chantel Allen: Yes.

Mark Butler: That obsessing
over those things.

It doesn't, It's not going to, it's not
going to compensate you for the obsession.

You won't get paid for that work.

You get paid for the internal work
and then you figure out how to express

the internal work in the, it might
be expressed through a podcast.

It might be expressed through
one on one conversations offline.

It might be expressed through a website.

It might be expressed on Instagram.

The way you express the
internal work varies, but.

You have to express internal work.

If the internal work isn't there, what
in our particular coaching community,

all of us who were born and raised
in the life coach school community,

the days of checking off to dues
associated with our businesses setting

up a Facebook campaign or whatever the
days of that producing any sort of.

Reliable result are gone.

It it is.

Over.

Now, that doesn't mean that
Facebook campaigns don't work.

What it means is just the
act of checking the box.

Yes.

I have my website.

I have a Facebook page.

I have a campaign.

I have written an ad.

Checking those things off by itself,
it, it doesn't produce any, unless

it's supported by the internal
work, the character, then there's

nothing that's going to come of that.

Chantel Allen: And I've noticed that
lately, even for myself, is I've

started to go back to Instagram finally.

But I noticed for a long time it was
like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do.

I'm supposed to get on here.

I'm supposed to post every single day.

I'm supposed to put on a story.

And it just felt so heavy
and so just overwhelming.

And I would be so much in my head
of what do I have to put out there?

How do I say it the right way?

How do I.

Whatever.

And what's so interesting in the last
probably two or three months, as I've been

still doing my own work on this of trying
to calm down the prover, the whatever

inside of me, it's so much easier.

Like I will just have a moment
where I've done maybe an hour of

silence or something like that.

I just naturally like, Oh, you know what?

I want to share this with everybody.

And it takes me two seconds to
get on my Instagram really

quickly, create something.

And I just let it go.

I'm not attached to how many likes or
how many, and it's been fascinating.

How many more DMS, how many more
likes, how many more shares, because

I'm not attached to what it is
that I'm putting out there anymore.

Yep.

And it's coming so much easier.

And I think that's what
coaches need to realize.

If we're not trying to prove anything
to yourself, or if you're not trying

to solve for something for you, your
clients are going to be, there'll

be so much more attracted to that.

Cause I really do believe people can
feel when you need something from them.

Mark Butler: Oh, absolutely.

Chantel Allen: So it is.

Yes, you might have the answer, but
if you're doing it to you feel

it's like this manipulation almost.

Mark Butler: Oh yeah, it is.

It is that, you just said
the phrase an hour of silence.

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

Mark Butler: What?

What?

Chantel Allen: Yeah.

I know.

I know.

And this is weird coming from me who
is like such a busy body used to be.

I really, I've got to stop saying that
because that's not how I identify anymore.

But I, so I obviously I'm a member of the
church, Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.

And we really talk about prayer
and holding space and meditation.

And it was from At One Mint.

I don't, I'm sure maybe a lot
of your people are familiar

with Thomas McConkie's book?

Yes.

Yep.

His At One Mint book
talks a lot about that.

It just, it's so interesting in
this day and age, we want answers,

but again, we think we have to have
all of our answers consuming it.

And he created this idea, not
created, he just, he shares this

idea of, we need more space.

We need more space in order for us
to actually connect to ourselves more

to connect to even being able to be
divinely guided is what I really do

believe is we can't stay so busy and
try to consume all of our answers.

It's, are you willing to sit in silence?

And let whatever needs to
come up, whatever needs to

be felt needs to be felt.

I will tell you when I say it,
people are like, Oh, that it

first off, they're like, it sounds
miserable, but it's not, I promise.

But also I think people think
it's supposed to be like this

positive, beautiful thing.

And I'll tell you lawyers a lot of times
where it's just like a squirrel nonstop.

Like it's just like anything else.

It's my brain wants to run the show.

But I, it's, I think again, it's like the
experience of getting on the treadmill

of I'm just getting on to show myself.

I can sit here and this is
just as valuable as me doing

anything else, if not more.

And I will say when I do those
things, I have way more energy.

I have way more focus.

I have way more, it's just
crazy what again, slowing down

does for us in the long run.

Mark Butler: I'm fighting the urge
to ask you about all the tactics

associated with your hour of silence.

So I'm not going to, because
the essence of it seems to be

you sit in silence for an hour.

Yes.

How often do you do that?

And however you

Chantel Allen: read that.

Like however you read that.

Cause some people are, they do.

They're like, does it have to be an hour?

Do you listen to guided meditation?

And I'm like, whatever feels
the best to you, again, my

way may not be the best way.

So it is like learning, okay.

Take the meat of it.

And then create it however it feels
good for you to create it again.

Don't get so caught up in the tactics.

Mark Butler: Are you pursuing a
specific state at the end of that hour?

I don't imagine it happens every time,
but do you finish an hour of silence and

have you identified a sort of quality of
being at the end of that, where you say,

yeah, that was what I wanted from this
experience today, or that's, I want that

to be what I get from this experience.

Typically, or how do you
think about the whole habit?

Chantel Allen: I love the question.

And I think it's, I don't have
an answer for every single time.

I, my goal more often than not, it's what
I do, even with my coaching sessions,

I try not to go into it with an agenda
of any kind, because then I feel like

it's a controller in me a little bit.

That's coming out to try and get to a
destination by the time that I'm done.

But there is those times where
I go into where I'm maybe I'm

really struggling with something.

And so I am more, I think of it like
more of a prayer or a conversation

where I just this is where I'm at.

Like I'm struggling with this.

I've just be very careful about not
getting attached to trying to get

to an answer or peace or clarity.

Would that, I would, I like that totally.

But I feel like if I try to get there,
that's where I have a lot of judgment

about it or I'll get done with an hour and
be like, I didn't get anything out of it.

So why am I even doing it again?

So I think it's different
every single time.

I just, my ultimate goal is
just more connection to myself.

And then mine is to my Heavenly Father,
too, where it's just I want this hour,

because I truly believe coaching is such
a beautiful conduit for, I think, for a

Heavenly Father to help us guide people.

more.

That's just me putting a little
bit more of my faith into it.

But that's what I want is if I
bring more of that into this,

I find my day goes easier.

I feel like I'm guided a little
bit more on how to say things

because I'm not in control.

I'm never in control, but I like, I have
that surrender moment in the morning.

It helps me throughout
the rest of the day.

Mark Butler: This is the kind of
work you'd invite other coaches to.

And

Chantel Allen: absolutely
if they wanted to.

And I think, again, there's a lot
of coaches that I've worked with

that are not of the LDS faith.

And that's, I think it's great.

Like connect to the universe, connect to
higher power, like whatever it is for you.

But I do find us stopping the control.

That's, I think the biggest
thing as coaches, we're trying to

control too much and just notice
that controlling isn't working.

So it's more of a surrendering moment,
whatever you want to surrender to,

whether it even just is to yourself
or to whatever you believe in.

I would encourage more people to do that.

Mark Butler: Powerful stuff.

I think maybe we'll end there for today.

Sounds

Chantel Allen: good.

Mark Butler: We just sent people
to do you have ChantelleAllen.

com?

ChantelleAllenCoaching.

com.

Chantel Allen: Yep.

And I can also give you a link that goes
directly to getting on this wait list.

If they want to just click on
that, it'll launch on the 22nd.

So

Mark Butler: I.

I am excited for anyone and everyone
who goes through this experience with

you, because I do feel very strongly.

And I think I have a lot of evidence
that a coach becomes a different coach,

a different practitioner after working
with their own coach and doing a different

type of work in a one on one setting
than they ever do in a certification

program, a group experience, a membership.

I have my own membership now.

I would never, I don't want anyone
to ever think that participating

my membership is a substitute for
a one on one coaching experience.

One of the reasons I make the
membership so cheap, frankly, is that

I don't want it to feel competitive
with money that people might spend

on a one on one coaching experience.

I have been coached by you.

I was coached by you last week.

And

Chantel Allen: I

Mark Butler: was a sneak attack by me.

And I really appreciate the space.

You hold the questions.

You ask the neutrality.

More people need to have coaching
experiences with coaches like you.

Some of them are going to have
coaching experiences with you, but

more coaches need to have coaching
experiences with coaches like you.

So we will send them to that wait list and
we're figuring out how you're going to be

a contributor to the office hours program.

Chantel Allen: Okay.

Mark Butler: I would

Chantel Allen: love that.

I would love that so much.

Mark Butler: This is me cornering you.

Chantel Allen: Okay.

Mark Butler: In public and demanding it.

Yeah, I think you have so
much to offer and to give.

And so I'm excited to figure
out what that looks like.

Chantel Allen: Happy to help.

And that's, I think it is, it's
just more of I want to help serve

because we need more coaches that
are can get this out to more people.

So I totally agree with that.

Mark Butler: I do.

I want there to be so many
internally regulated, loving,

skillful coaches out in the world.

Chantel Allen: Yeah,

Mark Butler: your practice, my practice,
lots of coaches practices stay pretty

full, which means we want there to
be a lot more coaches to serve the

people that don't have a coach yet.

There's no shortage of people
who would benefit from the

support of a skillful coach.

Chantel Allen: And if you believe that
it's too saturated, that's another

reason why to get your coaching
because there's a belief there too.

Cause I noticed I get caught up in that
as well, where I was like, Oh, there is

Mark and there is Chantel and they are
whatever they've taken all the clients.

I promise you, I echo what Mark says.

There's so many people, even right
now in this economy that need you

and they will invest in you, but
you have to believe that first.

Mark Butler: Yeah.

And you have to believe they're there.

And frankly, you have to
stop thinking about it.

Yes.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Stop thinking about the economy.

It's so indulgent.

Stop it.

Stop thinking about competition.

Stop thinking about the economy.

It doesn't matter.

Yes, there are a jillion coaches but
somehow it doesn't impact a skillful

coach's ability to serve clients.

Chantel Allen: Cause they
need you not another coach.

They need you.

And that's why I think you
doing your deeper work will

attract the right people to you.

The people that you've gone
as deep with yourself, they

will want that same deepness.

And I, there are still a lot of coaches
out there and again, they're great

at the how tos and the strategies.

What we're talking about
is no, there's a lot of those.

We want the deeper stuff that
really does move the needle.

Mark Butler: Yeah, totally agree.

Thank you, my friend.

Chantel Allen: Yeah, this is fun.

Mark Butler: Always great to catch
up with you and We'll talk to all

of you in the audience next time.