A Podcast for Coaches

Hey, this is Mark Butler and you are
listening to a podcast for coaches.

A few episodes back.

I talked about my desire to see
more practice spaces and communities

pop up in the coaching world.

And it's been great because since that
time I've heard from multiple people

who have started or who are planning
to start their own practice spaces and

support each other, support other coaches.

In developing their skills and
their confidence in their practices.

I think this is fantastic.

I also told you at the time that I want
to develop a practice space of my own.

As I thought about the
best way to do that.

An idea.

That's come back to my mind is the
possibility that the best model for this

practice space for this coach support.

Thing.

Is a membership.

Now, if you've listened to the podcast,
you know, all of the challenges

that face scaled training models
or scaled communities, because I

think I've done a pretty good job
of laying out their challenges.

As I consider the possibility of
creating a membership around a practice

space and a support space for coaches.

I am proceeding with
great care and caution.

Not only because I understand the
challenges and pitfalls that I've

seen in my client's businesses.

When they attempt to scale.

What we call a one to many offer.

But I also have direct
personal experience with this.

I may have mentioned this
on the podcast before.

I don't actually remember.

But between 2009 and 2012 Iran,
a membership that at its peak had

somewhere between 1500 and 1700 members
paying a little over $30 a month.

Which meant a $50,000 per month
business that lasted for a little while.

As I think about the possibility
of opening up a membership based

practice space for coaches.

I went back into my own podcast archives.

And in 2017, I recorded this
episode called the rise and fall.

Of my $50,000 per month membership site.

And I just went and
listened to the whole thing.

And it's fun.

It's nostalgic for me.

And there are some of the things
I say in this episode that I

don't necessarily agree with.

Now, there are some
that I still agree with.

Very strongly.

But overall, I wanted to share it with
you because I think there's some gold.

In this episode about what it's like
to create a scaled business and two.

Do some things that make it
thrive and then to do some

things that really hurt it.

And maybe in the next week or
two, I will apply some of the

ideas that are in this episode.

To the membership that I might start.

Around a practice space for coaches.

But I'll be honest after
listening to this episode.

It's probably a coin toss.

I would say that I feel some enthusiasm
about the possibility of another

community and other membership.

And also a lot of hesitation
because the one thing I know is

that it is not an easy thing to do.

So with that, enjoy the episode.

And I'll talk to you next time.

This is the Mark Butler
Show, episode five.

And today we're talking about
the rise and fall of my 50, 000

per month membership business.

So, of course, we'll go all
the way back to the beginning.

In late 2008, my business partner,
Court, and I created a home study course.

We called it, the Keyword Crash Course.

It was a series of videos.

and some text and we charged 600 for it.

Court was the subject matter expert.

He was the person who had come up
with this method and laid it out into

something that other people could follow.

And the whole thing taught people
how to set up websites, focus those

websites around specific keywords.

Rank those websites in Google,
and then make money when people

clicked through from Google, landed
on their website, and then clicked

Google ads, or clicked through to
affiliate offers, or whatever it was.

So basically,, our whole value
proposition was, you give us this 600,

we'll teach you how to rank a website
in Google that can pay you anywhere

from, you know, 100 to 1, 000 a month.

We sold the whole thing as a way
to make a relatively passive 1,

000 per month residual income.

Court had spent all of 2007, a lot
of 2008, building up a community

around him and his expertise in this,
in this search engine optimization.

We had a thriving list.

I think it had maybe four or
five thousand people on it.

Highly engaged.

So when we launched this,
600 home study course.

We made sales.

I want to say we made 50 or 60 sales
over the course of the next three months.

I was the sales guy.

So I actually got on the phone or
on Skype with most of the people

who signed up for that 600 program.

By the way, when you're selling a
600 program, if you're willing to

get onto a, onto a Skype call with
each person, with each prospect, your

close rate will be ridiculously high.

So we sold about 60 of this course.

But then I started to look at the
number of leads that were coming in

and I started to look at our list and
how our list was, it was there, but

it wasn't necessarily growing a lot.

So we were kind of running out of leads
and I was thinking about, well, okay, how

are we going to make money now if we've
kind of tapped out our list and we don't

have a bunch of new people coming onto
the list, how are we going to make money?

So over lunch one day I told Court,
Hey, I'm I have kind of a crazy idea.

I wonder if we could turn the keyword
crash course into a membership where

basically we'll say sign up for
our membership and instead of just

consuming videos, we're going to
give you the videos, but we'll also

give you a community forum where you
can get answers to your questions.

We're going to do community webinars
where you can talk to us directly.

So instead of just having to
consume our content and then go

implement it by yourself, we'll
support you through the process.

And what I proposed to court over
this lunch was, uh, Let's take

the entire keyword crash course
that we've been selling for 600.

Let's make the price of that
program 1 and offer it as a 30

day trial to this membership.

After the 30 day trial people can stay
on for 30 bucks a month and the goal

here is to build this big residual
income of 30 per month members.

So we talked about it a few
times and court agreed that it

was probably a good way to go.

It was a little scary because
we had these 60 people who had

paid us 600 for these videos.

And now we were basically
saying to them, Hey, you know

what you just paid us 600 for?

We're now gonna give it away for 1.

So we had this fear that most of those
people, or at least some of those

people, would ask for their money back.

But we decided that even if some of
those people requested a refund, It

was worth it because we really believed
in this new model and we really didn't

believe that we could go forward making
a lot of money on 600 program sales.

Now in hindsight, I would say that
we could have made plenty of money

on 600 program sales if we had
just fully committed to marketing

and selling that 600 course.

But as kind of a reaction to having
our leads dry up a little bit and

not wanting to go out and do a
bunch of new marketing, we decided,

well, let's just, tweak this thing.

So that the people we already have on
our list, who are just a little bit

more price sensitive, find it easier
to get into a relationship with us.

So we did that.

Oh, and by the way, the way we sort
of, , soothed all the people who'd

paid us 600 is, we just told them
that they all had a free lifetime

membership to this mem to this, , to
this community we were starting.

I think we even said, anything else
we sell, you're gonna get it for free.

I don't think anybody asked for a refund.

I don't remember exactly, but I'm I'm
pretty sure no one asked for a refund.

So we got the program ready.

This was, this was in 2009.

So all of the membership platforms that
are out there now, they didn't exist.

At the time we were using WordPress
and we were using wishlist.

You've probably heard of wishlist member.

Uh, it was very new at the time.

It wasn't very well done at the time.

I'm still not a big fan, frankly.

There's a lot of other ways I would go
if I were starting a membership site.

But we just cobbled together what we had.

, we had WordPress for the platform.

We used Wishlist for
membership management.

We used a WordPress based forum software
to have our community forum in there.

We had to use GoToMeeting
for the webinars.

Nobody uses GoToMeeting
anymore, as far as I can tell.

None of my customers are using
it anyway, and I don't use it.

We had all these things that we kind of
cobbled together, and it worked, sort of.

One of my favorite stories about
this whole membership experience

was the system we used for content
protection, Wishlist, at the time,

if you canceled your subscription
with us, We didn't have any way to

automatically keep you out of the system.

So people would cancel, but then
they could still just log in and use

everything in the, in the members area.

Not that we publicized that, but
we discovered it pretty early on.

So as an interesting note about
membership and about whether content

protection really is a huge deal, I
will tell you that every few months

I would go in and I would audit.

Canceled members to see if any of those
canceled members were still Accessing

the members area even though they weren't
paying and we would even have some

members occasionally email me and say
hey mark I canceled love the program.

It's not for me right now, or I've
gotten everything I need I'm gonna

move on but I just want to let you
know that even though I canceled I can

still log in And I would always send
back a reply and say, Oh man, thank

you so much for letting us know that.

We are going to look into that.

And then I didn't do anything because
we weren't going to look into it.

We already knew what the issue was.

We just weren't gonna fix it.

And it turned out that if somebody
isn't willing to pay for a program,

they're probably not going to be
bothered to log in and use it.

So keep that in mind when you, when
you jump through a lot of hoops.

to do content protection
on different areas of your

website or different programs.

The reality is it's hard enough
on the internet to get people

to consume content for free.

So if you have paid content, just
because you haven't done a really

good job of hiding it behind a paywall
or a member long and or whatever, it

doesn't mean that that hordes of people
are going to come consume it for free

because Like I said, it's hard enough
to get people to consume stuff for free.

So it was just kind of a funny
little quirk of that business

that after people canceled, they
could still access the site.

No problem.

The other funny thing about it
was we offered this 1 trial.

to the membership and there was
nothing to stop you from just starting

a new 1 trial every single month.

And I know there are people out there
who that would cause them like, really?

Oh no, we can't.

We have to fix it.

We have to fix it.

Well again, every few months
I would audit that piece and I

would see who was trying to cheat.

And over the course of three and
a half years we had, I don't know,

10, 000 people go through this
membership total, you know, take

a trial and try out the program.

There were like five people who
were cheating on the 1 trial.

So.

The reason I bring that all up as
an, as an aside is don't bog yourself

down and having a perfect technical
setup for your website, for your

members area, for your products,
because it just doesn't really matter.

It's not really going to matter.

So anyway, we take this 600 course,
we turn it into a membership.

And we launch it to our list and
we get this amazing response.

I think the first day we had something
like 200 people sign up the day

after that we had 200 more and the,
and then people would come into

our, our members area and they would
say, Hey, I'm so excited to be here.

I've always wanted to implement
what court teaches and what Mark

teaches, but I couldn't afford the
600, but now they're going to let

me have it for 30 bucks a month.

And that's perfect.

I'm so excited to be here.

And we started to grow this
community and you know what?

It worked so well.

It was amazing.

Let me take you through the
features of the program and then

I'll tell you sort of the wins.

And the fails for each
aspect of the program.

So you, you pay me a dollar, you pay us a
dollar, you jump into our members area and

you consume what we call the core lessons.

These were those keyword crash
course videos that we had

created for the 600 program.

You go through these and
they're very, very step by step.

They were excellent.

One of the best things about this program
was that court had done such a good job.

He has such a kind of a
scientist experimenter brain.

where you had done such a good job
of figuring out exactly what people

needed to do in order to rank a
website in Google and in order to

make that website make money, that
we really had this A to Z process

that worked pretty much every time.

So if you would join our program,
and if you would just implement what

we taught, you would make money.

It might take you a while.

It might take you six months or it might
take you a year, but you would make money.

That was so gratifying for us
because we felt like we were

really, really delivering value
because people were, were succeeding.

They were actually making money in, in an
area, this, this area of kind of making

money online that was known to be full
of scams and full of, you know, junk.

But if you signed up for our
program and you actually implemented

what we taught, you got paid.

That felt amazing.

And as people started to make money,
they would go back into our forum, and

they would talk about their success.

And then it fed on the energy that we had.

Actually, let me go into
more detail about that.

So when you sign up for our forum,
one of the first things we implemented

was what we called the badge system.

And the badge system was something
we'd stolen from video games, because

we were playing a lot of video games
at the time, and what we did was,

because this was a community built
around making money, We created a badge

system that said, Hey, when you start
making money using this method, you'll

submit proof of your success to us as
the, as the moderators in the forum.

And then , we'll give you the
earnings badge that corresponds

to your current earning level.

Now, when we launched this, there
was a lot of discussion and debate

in the community about like,
well, I don't like I'm private.

I don't want to share
those kinds of details.

Some people were like, I'm from
Europe and in Europe, this is

a completely taboo subject.

I don't know whether it is or isn't.

I was taking the European's word for it,
but they were saying, I'm from Europe.

This is totally taboo.

We don't talk about money.

We don't talk about income.

This is totally out of line.

I'm not going to participate.

And we said, Hey, here's the deal.

You're welcome in our community.

You don't have to participate, but
we think a lot of you will really

appreciate being able to watch , your
fellow members of the community succeed.

It'll inspire you to go do more.

It'll create.

Friendly competition will create this
high energy around actually accomplishing

what we all claim we want to do.

So we built this badge system and
the first badge was like a dollar.

It was like you've earned your
first dollar and then badges went

up to like twenty five, fifty
dollars, hundred dollars per month.

They jumped to a five hundred dollars
per month and there was a thousand

dollar per month badge and the thousand
dollar per month badge was a huge deal.

It was a huge deal.

Because we had built the whole program
around this idea that, hey, you come

in here, you implement this system,
you can make a supplemental, semi

passive, 1, 000 per month income.

In fact, Cort and I, when we did
this, we really didn't have any idea

how far people would take our system.

We didn't look at this method as a
way of creating a full time income.

We didn't have a full time income from it.

We made some money from this system,
but then we really monetized the

system by teaching it to other people.

So we sold the thing as 1, 000
per month, Opportunity, right?

So when people would get to their
1, 000 badge, it was this bright

yellow badge that said 1, 000 on it.

We would have people submit their
proof for their 1, 000 badge.

And when they submitted their proof,
our system would give them a banner.

It would give them the badge, but
it would give them a banner across

their badge that said pending because
we hadn't approved the badge yet.

And when you would see somebody, Post in
the forum and they would get their pending

badge the forum would just it would kind
of go crazy people would be like Oh check

it out John's got his thousand dollar
badge pending and all of a sudden it'd

be like everybody would gather around and
then we would approve the badge And then

John who just gotten his thousand dollar
badge He would write basically this long

Oscar acceptance speech in the forum.

I'm serious, and I'm not
mocking it It was so much fun.

It would be like I just want to thank
Mark and Court, I want to thank all these

other community members because even
though the lessons were great, really

the community is what helped me succeed
and I want to thank this person, that

person, and the other person because
they got me through some sticking points.

It was so much fun and they would
talk about how, what they were

doing with the income and how it was
changing their life and on and on.

I mean, it was just the best thing ever.

I loved those days when people would
apply for a new exciting earnings badge.

Well then our members
started to surprise us.

Because all of a sudden there
were people earning 5, 000.

So we had to make a 5, 000 badge.

And then there were people
earning 10, 000 per month.

We had to make a 10, 000 badge and
on until finally we had to create.

A 50, 000 per month badge.

I think.

I might be, uh, is that true?

It was either 25, 000 or 50, 000.

I find both of those numbers equally
ridiculous when I think about

this method that we were teaching.

I can't believe anybody was making either
25, 000 per month or 50, 000 per month.

They were both bananas.

But the energy that would, that
would surge in that community

when somebody would get a 10,
000 badge or a 25, 000 badge.

It was just, it was amazing.

So this forum became, it became
the hub for the whole community.

We also did webinars where people would
come and they do live Q and A with me

or with court and we'd help them out.

And then sometimes we would do
four webinars where we taught new

material and then those were useful
because people would refer to

those webinars in the members area.

They'd say, somebody would say,
ah, this question, I'm stuck.

And somebody else would say, well, you
got to go check out the latest webinar.

It really answers that
or it addresses that.

So the whole thing really fed on itself.

It was super productive.

Yeah.

And really, really fun.

And it attracted members.

I mean, at the time, you know,
Court had done so much work.

The reason Court gets so much credit
for this whole business is because in

2007 and 2008, he had done all of the,
of the work to build the community,

to build the list that we could sell
this community to in the first place.

But once we had this community going,
Court wasn't doing a lot more at

that point to keep growing the list.

So we really were having to rely
on word of mouth and on affiliates.

To bring us new members, but
we were getting word of mouth.

I mean, we were adding two and three
and four new subscribers every day.

Sometimes we would get
a little surge, 10, 15.

We had affiliates who
would drive traffic to us.

People would say, well, this
is a really great program.

You got to go check it out.

And that would bring people to us.

But what really caused people to
stick, I think, was this energy in

this forum where, where people were
able to see other people succeeding

and they were able to follow them.

And they were able to follow them
because the system that we taught

was so sequential, so reliable, that
you could say, Well, if John got to a

thousand dollars per month following
the system, then I'm just going to

follow the system and I'm going to
make a thousand dollars per month too.

In hindsight, I really believe that the
foundation of this business success was

the positivity, the energy, the passion.

And the, the friendship and the
community that grew inside of this

forum, where people were cheering each
other on and they weren't just cheering

each other on, they were doing it
with real evidence of their success.

If I were to ever start a forum, you
know, a community like that again,

I would always have the community
focused around a specific goal.

And then I would celebrate as individual
members of the community reach that goal.

I wouldn't do it in a way that diminishes
those people who aren't succeeding yet,

but the simple reality is everybody there
is there for a reason and it validates

the entire mission of the community.

When you point out the people who
are succeeding and when you set them

up as the example of how to do this.

So I believe that was the
foundation of our success.

But my personality is That I'm a little
bit of a perfectionist and I'm a tinkerer.

And so when you put those things
together, I got it in my head pretty

early on in this business that we
couldn't just stand on the value we

offered with the core lessons of the
members area, the members forum, the

earnings badges, and the webinars.

I was certain that that was never
going to be enough to get people to

stick to our 33 per month membership.

Now, I might have been right, but
we never gave ourselves a chance

to find out because I was too
anxious that we were going to lose

these people that we'd gotten.

So I was never really, uh,
I was never willing to give.

Our value proposition a real test by
just letting it ride Let's see how far

we can take this idea of core lessons
plus community forum plus webinars plus

You know these earnings badges that
drive people forward So very early on

I got it in my head that we had to add
software to the mix We had to build tools

for the members so that yes They might
like the forum and they might like the

webinars But they can't leave the tools
because the tools help them automate

the process that we teach so very early
on You We hired a software developer,

just happened to be my brother, and he
started to build tools that would, that

would automate parts of this process.

And yeah, the members loved these tools.

We ended up building, I don't know,
three, maybe four tools that helped

automate different pieces of this,
of this method that we taught.

The members loved these tools.

And in fact, we ended up spinning
a couple of them off as Successful

businesses on their own.

So, one of the tools we built was this,
, this keyword research tool that helped

people, like, dig up information about
which terms are being searched in Google.

People loved that because it simplified
a, a really tedious research process.

Later on, we built this guest
posting hub called PostRunner.

It's still, it's still online, by the way.

I don't know if it still runs, but

Postrunner brought together website
owners and article publishers, article

authors, and it created easy, frictionless
guest posting opportunities, which at

the time gave people the opportunity to
post on each other's websites, get links

from the other website to their website,
which ranked their website in Google

better, so people went nuts for this.

I mean, it worked really,
really, really well.

Because, again, it was so good
at gaming Google's algorithm.

So these are the tools we built.

The members loved them.

And it was a huge win.

But, as I look back, I'm really not sure
how big of a win it actually was, because

it confused our value proposition so much.

Like I said, we really
didn't know what to do.

Whether the people who were there,
were there because they loved the

community forum so much, or the
webinars so much, or the tools.

And because we couldn't pinpoint,
and when we asked, by the way,

people would say all three.

Why are you still here?

Oh, I'm here for the forum.

Why are you still here?

Oh, I'm here for the tools.

I'll never leave these tools.

Why are you still here?

Well, I love the webinars.

So somebody loved everything
we were doing, but we didn't

know what the main benefit was.

And that made it so we kind of
felt like we had to do more of

everything, more webinars, more
tools, more time in the forum.

So for 33 per month, it started
to get a little bit tedious.

And we only had one software developer.

And at the time, he was very new
in his software development career.

So as our tools started to break down,
because that's what software does,

you know, breaks down, things change,
services you rely on, they change,

then you have to rebuild the software.

He started having a little
bit of a hard time keeping up.

And we had to start, you know, kind
of rebuilding the software, but then

we had multiple pieces of software to
rebuild and it started to be tedious and

started to be hard to keep up with this
kind of technical debt in the business.

And also as things started to
change with Google's algorithm,

our core lessons were out of date.

And the tools that we demonstrated in
the core lessons and the processes we

demonstrated, those were out of date.

So we had content debt.

So we had technical debt with our
software, we had content debt with our

core lessons, and we, we started to feel
like, oh, there's a lot of plates to keep

spinning here, and this isn't quite the
passive income that we had hoped for.

So we recognized this and we
decided, well, we have to simplify.

We have to simplify.

We've just, we've just
added too much to this.

Well, that means taking things away from
people, That have been enjoying them.

So we discontinued one of the pieces of
software that we built for our members.

Guess how they reacted?

They were mad.

Not very surprising, right?

They were mad.

But we knew that we couldn't
sustain the development of that

software, that particular software.

So we lost two members over that.

But the bigger issue wasn't that we lost
those members, it was that it was sort of

the first time that we had really damaged
the goodwill we had with our members.

And this is at the same time that Google
is starting to change things and some

of our members are starting to struggle
to, to create or maintain the income.

So they're stressed out and
now we're taking features away

and that's making them mad.

And this energy starts to bubble in
our forum, which is the hub for all the

communication we have with our members.

There starts to be some, you know,
snarky comments and some hurt

feelings and stuff like that.

So then we start to scramble a little bit.

Now we knew that the energy in the
forum was one of our keys to success.

One of my fails in this whole
process is I got kind of addicted

to my own community forum.

I basically just sit there and refresh
the page when the reality is sitting

there and obsessing over what was going
on in our forum was not What I could

have been doing was thinking about how
do we shift the entire business in a

different direction where it's not so
dependent on Google's current algorithm.

And how do I work with my business
partner to do more marketing and

more sales so that we bring a steady
stream of fresh faces in here.

To replace those that are leaving us.

But instead of doing any of that, I
babysat the forum and just kind of

obsessed over it, which ended up not being
productive because as some of the snark

and some of the anger was bubbling up in
the forum, I was very young at the time.

I mean, age wise, I don't know,
it's 29 30, but I mean, I was very

young in business and I, and my
ego was really caught up in whether

I was, the members were happy and
whether they were complimenting

me and complimenting the business.

And if anybody was mad,
then I was defensive.

I was super insecure
about the whole thing.

And there were a handful of members
that just rubbed me the wrong way.

Even on my best day, this small handful
of members just got under my skin.

But instead of handling that like an
adult, I would occasionally engage

in, you know, many arguments with
certain members in the forum, in

front of all my other customers.

Like, how genius is that?

Like, like I'm going to restore the
positivity and the energy in the

business by fighting with my own
customers in front of my other customers.

Yeah, that went about as
well as you, as you imagine.

Like, I'm gonna create factions in
my own business between those people

who agree with me and those people
who agree with this other guy.

Disaster.

You know, lessons learned.

Another thing that was going on in the
forum at the time, which had been part,

a big part of our early success, was
we had created a way in our forum for

members to offer services to each other.

So we had this service provider section
of the forum and people could go in

there and they could basically post
an ad that says, Hey, this part of

the method that Court and Mark teach,
I will do that for you for this fee.

And the community loved it because the
people who wanted to supplement their

income by doing services had an easy
avenue to customers and the people who

had a little bit more money on their
hands and they wanted to streamline

some of this by hiring people, they
had access to these service providers.

It worked really well and it
contributed a ton to the forum.

And what I found out later.

was that these service providers now had
a, they had a profit motive to be active

and helpful in that forum because that was
how they were going to get their leads.

And the reason I say I found this
out later was because after one

or two experiences where a service
provider treated one of their

customers badly, and it kind of would
blow up in the forum, I panicked.

Again, I, I really just I wish I
would have had somebody Next to me

the whole through this whole process
to say, Hey, man, you, you need

to just chill, like, just relax.

Everything's going to be fine.

But instead, when I saw that this
member is treating that member badly

and, oh, are we going to get sued?

No one's going to sue us.

That was a stupid.

What was I worried about?

But I was freaking out.

And so I was like, that's it.

The service provider program is over.

And I made that decision, I
think pretty much unilaterally.

I might've consulted court, but court
really let me sort of run the back

end of the business and I was kind of
the more emotional, more volatile one.

So when I decided there
was a problem with.

The, uh, with the service
providers program.

I think I just sort of unilaterally
was like, well, that's that.

The service provider program is over.

Well, what did I accomplish?

All I really accomplished was that
I offended the best customers I had.

I had created a scenario where they
could supplement their income, make a

meaningful contribution to this community.

Make some money doing it and and what
was I thinking because they were also

doing the vast majority of my customer
service for me But because I was young

in business and because my ego is caught
up in this and because I was I was a

little bit Volatile about the whole thing.

I just dropped the whole program
the whole service provider program

offending all of these service
providers Well, guess what they did?

They left.

Of course they did.

Because there are other
forums you can go hang out in.

In fact, once you've found your group of
friends, you can go make your own forum.

And that's exactly what they did.

And how could I blame them?

So, between the rumblings with the
Google algorithm, and the struggles

that that was creating for some of our
members, and Me being too caught up in

my own ego about exactly how people were
interacting in this forum and whether

they were behaving as I thought they
should and as whether they were being,

you know, appropriately complementary
of me and the system and blah blah blah.

Combine that with With my sabotage
of the service providers program

in this forum and the wheels
start to come off a little bit.

And whereas the business had been
growing, growing, growing, and it

had reached that 50, 000, I think
we, we had one 60, 000 a month.

We had lots of 50, 000 months.

We started to see membership
struggle now in hindsight,.

It's easy for me to see.

That the way I was acting in this
forum was sabotaging the word of

mouth engine that it had become.

, you might think that the conversations
you're part of are the only conversations

, that are happening about your business.

That's how naive I was.

It never occurred to me that these people
who'd been fantastic customers would be

able to go have conversations with each
other and be like, uh, what's Mark's deal?

That's Like, what's he doing here?

Let's just go start a forum of our own.

Or, hey, Joe Schmo has a different forum.

He charges 10 bucks a month.

It's a better forum.

Let's just go over there.

So not only do they leave, but
now the word of mouth machine is

growing for Joe Schmo's forum.

Now, could I have fixed all this?

Probably?

Maybe?

I don't know.

But in hindsight, what I know is that
if I would have checked my ego and just

thought, how do I be of service here?

How do I view every single one of
these members as a, as a huge blessing,

treat them accordingly, be honest
and transparent and supportive.

Would that have changed things?

I think it would have changed them some.

Would the business have
survived and thrived?

I don't know.

Because if you go go back to the beginning
with me, when I said how this golden

path to success that we'd created was so
tight, it was so reliable, so predictable.

That when Google changed their algorithm,
our whole golden path was out the window.

And then that's exactly what happened.

Sometime 2010, 2011, there was a sweeping
change to the Google algorithm, and it

seemed like pretty much overnight, you
know, huge swaths of our members, these

1, earners, saw their income go to zero.

So, I say that because even if I had
not been,, kind of an arrogant, volatile

kid, In the whole process, the business
still might've failed because it was

built on such a shaky foundation.

This foundation of Google's algorithm
that they can change anytime they want.

But I can still take the
lessons away from it.

Lessons like treat your customers
with gratitude and respect.

It doesn't mean let them abuse
you, but it means treat them

with gratitude and respect.

Leave your ego out of it.

You're getting paid.

You're getting paid.

Take the money.

Say thank you.

Treat people well.

Take the time to dig into your
business and understand what really

makes it work because what really
makes it work may be very different

from what you think makes it work.

I was sure that our business was so
successful because we had created

this golden path to success.

Well, the reality is people could get that
golden path a lot of different places.

It might be slightly different, but they
could get it a lot of different places.

What they really were paying us for
was this combination of community and

support and these tools we'd built.

So just sort of check yourself.

Do you know what really drives the
success of your business forward?

Is your ego telling you that it's
one thing when the reality is it's

something completely different?

Are you taking credit for aspects
of your success that actually

have nothing to do with you?

I mean, I'll say at the time too, I was
also really sure that I was The biggest

part of our success, Quartz and my
success, because I was the one who had

conceived of the business model and I had
implemented it and I, I created the tools

and I did all of these things that ended
up being the back end of the business.

And I, I'll admit that at the
time, I really was undervaluing

what Court had contributed, but
Court had done the heavy lifting.

Court had lined up thousands of
people for me to say, hey, do

you want to join this membership?

And a lot of them said yes.

But without those thousands of
people, it wouldn't have mattered.

I could have created the best back end
for this business in the whole world.

There would have been
nobody to offer it to.

So, as you look at your business, have
honest conversations with yourself

about what's really driving it forward.

It doesn't mean your
contribution doesn't count.

My contribution counted.

But I was undervaluing other
people's contributions, including my

business partner and my customers.

And ultimately that, I mean,
that really hurt the business.

Could we have saved it again?

I don't know, but I know that I
won't make those mistakes again.

So that's, that's the
story in April of 2009.

We launched by a year later, we
were probably at 30, 000 a month.

A few months later, we were at 50,
000 a month, and that 50, 000 a month

lasted probably six, eight months.

Then Google started making these changes.

Mark's ego started getting in the way.

Next thing you knew, by the end of
2012, the business was on its way out.

We had spun off a couple of different
pieces of software that ended up

getting sold, and that was fun.

Sold as independent businesses, I mean.

That was fun.

It was a great learning experience.

But the business was on its way out.

Court had lost enthusiasm for it.

I had lost enthusiasm for it.

And basically at the end
of 2012, we wound it down.

I will tell you now that I
know that I will create another

50, 000 per month business,

and I will take all the lessons
I learned from that failure.

And apply them to the new venture.

I'll do a much, much better job
of leaving my ego at the door.

I'll do a much, much better job of
focusing on content and methods that I

can teach people that are not going to
be erased overnight by a big corporation.

And I'll also take with me the memory
that when you deliver real value and

when you create real community, The
business can take on a life of its

own and produce more income than you
really ever thought was possible.

I will never take for granted again
a 50, 000 per month business because

that's an amazing success and I
look forward to creating it again.

So that's what I got for you and
I will talk to you next week.